deonb
Active Member
It is not Tesla's mission statement to make trucks safer. It is to electrify them.
However, Tesla takes pride in their safety, and safety should be an ancillary effect, but it won't be the main goal.
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Tesla semi is ill conceived...
- Thread starter jr4488
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It is not Tesla's mission statement to make trucks safer. It is to electrify them.
However, Tesla takes pride in their safety, and safety should be an ancillary effect, but it won't be the main goal.
brucet999
Active Member
I believe that substance abuse and driver error may largely be related to driver fatigue exacerbated by pressure to drive too fast and too long in order to make a given run profitable for owner-operators, who get paid a fixed amount for the load no matter the distance or road conditions.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
*cough*
The recent great recession was a result of financial industry dereguation that allowed a derivatives fueled credit bubble. Review your recent history to find out the political actors. Hint: they are the same actors rolling back the Obama era regulations, today.
As I said though, good luck pushing truck regulation in a Republican controlled federal government.
jelloslug
Active Member
You are making an incredible amount of assumptions about the safety and equipment that is included with the truck.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Dr. J
Active Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
That no doubt plays a part, although I cannot estimate how much and in any case it is not going to be changed by OP's suggestions.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
From this link:
OP, do you know what fraction of random tests are carried out during a work episode ?
Perhaps I am being cynical, but I think that test results from drivers involved in accidents is a better metric; and even then far from perfect given the large variety of illicit drugs available that are missed by usual drug screens.
I'm also curious what tests are done. Are amphetamines screened for ? Certainly not synthetic canniboids.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Nikola is a joke...and currently using investor funding to purchase companies unrelated to the semi they unveiled.
roblab
Active Member
I know I mentioned Jerome has been in charge of the program. The semi was not designed without heavy input from the targeted customer base. It wasn't designed in a void. I'm sure they will continue to solicit feedback, but please don't imply they did this without substantive input from experienced users. That's simply not true.
As we've found on various Tesla vehicles, some like the features, others do not. Everyone has a different opinion which is why this forum has such long threads at times. It doesn't mean they didn't solicit opinion.
From an OLD semi driver, thanks. Some people are unable to change. If it doesn't look like my Mack or Corn Flaker, spew black smoke, barely make it up hills, and leave you deaf, I don't want anything to do with it. I hear you. I didn't do the ten hour days. Only a few hundred miles and then back, loaded my own trucks with a little forklift or by hand. But things change. Tesla semi will mature and adapt and improve and it won't be like the demo model.
Jackknifes can happen in many ways. It is usually caused when the weight of the trailer overcomes that traction on the drive tires and pushes the tractor out of the way. It can also happen with strong crosswinds on slick pavement or even loss of traction on the trailer tires.
There are different ways to recover from jackknifes. For example, if you reduce your speed and increase your following distance in bad weather, you will have room to accelerate and straighten out the trailer when the trailer starts to push on the truck.
By "tension" I meant traction force against the road. Once the rig breaks loose and starts to slide on slick pavement, it's difficult to regain control. Currently, speed based cruise control applies more throttle on hills and makes it more likely to lose traction.
Mixer for the brakes - an empty trailer puts little weight on the trailer tires and therefore the brakes are not very effective on the trailer. When you load the trailer with 20 tons, there is more weight on the trailer tires and therefore more traction for the brakes to use. On slick payment or in high winds, a heavy trailer gives you much better control and better stopping ability. I want the ability to dial in more trailer brakes when the trailer is heavy than when it is not. Some trucks (mine included) can apply trailer brakes separately. This sometimes works when you see the trailer coming around. You can stab the trailer brake and maybe straighten it out.
When I looked at the interior pictures of the Tesla semi truck, there was no "T" handle to apply the trailer brakes separately. I want both the "T" handle and a dial to adjust in more trailer brakes when the trailer is loaded.
Things get even more complicated because California has what they call a "Bridge Law". This requires that the trailer axles be moved all the way forward, thus putting much more weight on the trailer tires and less weight on the tractor tires. Obviously, the bureaucrats in California don't understand that this can be dangerous and increases that chance of a jackknife.
In bad weather, you want a couple thousand pounds more weight on the drive tires than on the trailer tires. You want about 10 tons on the steer tires. The reason you see many instances where some trucks are sliding off the road and others aren't is because the rig sliding off the road is not balanced properly between steer tires, drive tires and trailer tires.
An experienced driver instructs the forklift operator where to put the pallets in the trailer in such a way as to maximize traction in the case of bad weather or an emergency...
jack
But Elon didn't drive Tesla's semi program. Jerome Guillen did. (Jerome was the guy on stage who introduced the semi at the event Thursday night.) And Jerome has a truckload
Problem is, Freightliner offered a cheap truck, not a particularly good one, go to a truck stop and ask. Jerome may know the business end of producing trucks but he either is not in tune with the actual design or Elon gave him very limited control on the design of this unit.
There is no question this truck is heavy, you can see it in the video and if they expect to run it in inclement weather it is going to get much heavier with that enclosed bottom. That bottom also appears to be a combination of .375 and maybe .625 plate? It must be part of the structure. Those axles are heavy, there is allot going on in there, 2x motors and gearboxes coupled to the rear axles. A ton heavier than conventional drive axles isn't a long shot. Combine that with what appears to be 3x12x.375 tubing for the rear frame and this thing is a brick...
It has air suspension and air brakes and a differential on each axle traction control and ABS is going to be no different than any other truck, slow and clumsy.
Jack, your description of the jackknife scenario is pretty good. It's funny you mention the trailer brake control handle. I've driven truck for about forty years now and have never used it other than to test couplings, brakes and for chainups on slippery hills when I spun out (aaand slide trailers into place in slippery yards
). I've worked in conditions you see in the dash cam videos up North, pulled dry vans, A trains, B trains, rocky mountain doubles and wheelers in these conditions as well and have never come close to jackknifing. Almost everyone I've worked with has never jackknifed either and many have put many more miles than I have (some are better drivers, most are not).You brake mixer idea has some merit, I used to run crane trucks with fifth wheel trailers and empty the rear axles of the trucks weighed almost the legal max while the trailers were light (empty), you touch the foot brakes and the trailer wheels would skid, all our braking was done through planning and engine brakes (feathering the foot brakes when you were almost stopped). Trailer brakes could be tied into the trailer air ride suspension so as the air pressure increases to adjust for the added weight it would automatically allow more air pressure to the trailer axles. Spring ride trailers could be a problem but with today's technology strain gauges could be used in conjunction with ABS. Manually adjusting trailer braking in relation could lead to disaster as many operators would not set it correctly and windup either skidding the trailer tires or making the potential for jackknives even worse.
Bridge laws apply everywhere in the US and Canada, it's why you see some really goofy axle combinations and super long trucks in some states.
Your comments on bureaucrats is pretty close, the reason for the short wheelbase on trailers in California is for going around corners isn't it? At least that's what the friendly officer explained to me.
I hope your comment about ten tons on the steer axle is a misprint, six ton is maximum in North America, even with wide base tires you can just barely achieve ten tons with special permits and permanently mounted equipment. No highway truck axles and tires are rated for that kind of weight.
brucet999
Active Member
When I drove a little '53 Ford tractor with flat bed trailer for local hay hauling one summer in Bakersfield, there was a lever on left side of the steering column for trailer brake [if vacuum brakes can actually be called brakes
]. Is that your "T" handle or is there now an actual "T" shaped handle for trailer brake?When I drove a little '53 Ford tractor with flat bed trailer for local hay hauling one summer in Bakersfield, there was a lever on left side of the steering column for trailer brake [if vacuum brakes can actually be called brakes
Lots of trucks have "T" handles on the dash just right of the steering wheel now instead of the lever on the steering column. Usually they were on the right as the signal switch is on the left, hard to imagine the setup you ran
mmd
Active Member
This ex-trucker has some questions about the Tesla Semi
BTW, Tesla's comparison to "average" trucks on roads today is as misleading as comparing Model S AP safety to average safety of cars worldwide! Let's compare to new competing trucks coming out in 2020, shall we?
BTW, Tesla's comparison to "average" trucks on roads today is as misleading as comparing Model S AP safety to average safety of cars worldwide! Let's compare to new competing trucks coming out in 2020, shall we?
Trucks won't change that much by 2020, it's a very slow process and it appears nothing groundbreaking is in the works. Keeping the truck on the road will be the biggest safety improvement, 90% of truck wrecks are drivers running them off the road, Tesla will have safety cornered in the truck market if they fix that.
How many diesel semis come with all of those Safety features standard? How many come with EAB and EAP standard?
