Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[sublimejackman]

Happy to report that in cabin camera is not required for AP in this update. I covered it up and had no issues using AP. I even pretended that i was using my cell phone and had no warnings with AP.

I experienced phantom breaking though… lol.

So just no change? Increase in nag frequency or when approaching intersections?

Maybe a later revision of 2023.44.30 will have the recall?

(one day we will go back to the pre-phanttom-breaking glory days)

 

[KArnold]

Happy to report that in cabin camera is not required for AP in this update.

I assume you can now accumulate strikes and get suspended for a week on AP? As opposed for the drive? Want to get a strike to confirm?

 

[Tronguy]

THIS!

Not trying to circumvent the camera, but when I had FSDb, I was warned each time I had to go to the screen to adjust fans, wipers, maps, etc. So I stopped using FSDb.

So I hope the camera doesn't monitor you for basic AP. Otherwise, you're telling me it's safer to turn off AP so I can adjust the HVAC or wipers? It would be a big disappointment.

*update* I just got the update this morning. I'll report back in 3-4 hours after I test it.

Ahem. Must have been quite a while ago. Everybody has, I suppose, their breaking point.

But just to the rest of the hoi-polloi out there: I run FSD-b all the time. I occasionally change radio channels, look over at the map, fool with the wipers, and all that jazz. What I don't do is look at the screen for more than 15 seconds or so at a time, which is roughly the time it takes for the car to notice that eyeballs aren't out front.

For that matter, I still act like a driver: Look at the front, check the rear view mirror, check the speed, look out the side rear view mirrors, glance sideways, etc. Just like driver's ed: One does not keep ones eyes out front and locked. The car's monitoring system has never complained about that. Looking at the screen for too long.. sure, that. But one just keeps it short.

 

[Dewg]

Fun watch:

 

[DuncanM]

I hope you’re right.

All versions of autopilot needs to be limited to highways where traffic isn’t encountering stop lights and stop signs. Where traffic isn’t turning across lanes of opposite direction traffic. Where pedestrians aren’t interacting with traffic.

It‘s clear people aren’t smart enough to turn it off on city streets, so it needs to be forced.

As previously posted there are millions of cars on the road with Cruise Control and all these cars can use CC in urban driving. At least AP is intelligently monitoring it's surroundings and will warn the driver if it detects unsafe conditions. No, AP isn't perfect but is still a very useful aid to the driver, even in a city.

 

[DuncanM]

Where the term 'autopilot' originated:

Popular Science

Popular Science gives our readers the information and tools to improve their technology and their world. The core belief that Popular Science and our readers share: The future is going to be better, and science and technology are the driving forces that will help make it better.

books.google.com

and in 1930 Autopilot would keep a plane on a set course and altitude, and not much else.

 

[sublimejackman]

As previously posted there are millions of cars on the road with Cruise Control and all these cars can use CC in urban driving. At least AP is intelligently monitoring it's surroundings and will warn the driver if it detects unsafe conditions. No, AP isn't perfect but is still a very useful aid to the driver, even in a city.

No it doesn't. It runs red lights and doesn't look for cars turning. Something it could (not saying we should get EAP/FSD for free but it could do the red beep beep warning if approaching a red light) do if Tesla's business strategy wasn't fake it till you make it with FSD. Most people don't use CC on surface roads because it would be annoying as hell and it's called "cruise control". This isn't to mention the fact that the CEO of GM isn't going around telling the world that "it can drive itself".

That being said, I don't nescessarily agree that AP should be completely banned on surface roads but it probably should not be available in downtown cities and single lane backroads. Also, there were a shocking number of collisions reported to the NHTSA in snow, heavy rain and fog. Heck there was even a pedestrian death this year. Prob shouldn't be allowed on in those conditions either.

 

[dansev]

Happy to report that in cabin camera is not required for AP in this update. I covered it up and had no issues using AP. I even pretended that i was using my cell phone and had no warnings with AP.

I experienced phantom breaking though… lol.

Thank you for that update! I'm glad I can *pretend* to occasionally look at my phone. Not that I would ever *actually* do that...

Also, can you confirm that we can still use AutoPilot on secondary roads, with clear lines, but not limited access?

 

[DuncanM]

No it doesn't. It runs red lights and doesn't look for cars turning. Something it could (not saying we should get EAP/FSD for free but it could do the red beep beep warning if approaching a red light) do if Tesla's business strategy wasn't fake it till you make it with FSD. Most people don't use CC on surface roads because it would be annoying as hell and it's called "cruise control". This isn't to mention the fact that the CEO of GM isn't going around telling the world that "it can drive itself".

That being said, I don't nescessarily agree that AP should be completely banned on surface roads but it probably should not be available in downtown cities and single lane backroads. Also, there were a shocking number of collisions reported to the NHTSA in snow, heavy rain and fog. Heck there was even a pedestrian death this year. Prob shouldn't be allowed on in those conditions either.

Of course no one ever ran a stop sign or red light or hit a pedestrian before AP was invented... not! I've also been nearly hit head-on numerous times by idiots in non-Teslas who were clearly texting whilst driving and at least with AP (or equivalent) on they'd stay in their lanes and AP (or equivalent) would give everyone else a fighting chance to not get run down.

AP can't stop other drivers from hitting you, but it can detect stopped and crossing vehicles, pedestrians, bikes, etc and take appropriate action and I find it a useful aid even in a city, and it's especially useful in congested traffic. Is it perfect?: Not by a long shot, but it clearly states that the driver must be alert and be ready to take over.

FSD and AP are very different topics.

 

[Mardak]

@Mardak pointed out that these incremental point releases may be simply a progression of expansion to various models and hardware car versions. This makes sense based on the which cars are associated with each new point-release rollout.

Here's a more visual comparison of each 2023.44.30.x distribution relative to TeslaFi's 2023.44.1 stats so far:

The green in each column shows which vehicles are over-represented (and red: under) in that rollout, e.g., .3 seemed to focus on adding 2023 Model X while .1 did not include these. And across all the rollout versions so far, Model X is fairly well distributed except for 2016.

One caveat is this is worldwide data although "Autopilot Suspension" might have been added for everyone even though the full recall remedies should only be for US/Canada.

 

[Supcom]

The rollout seems to have come to a grinding halt. I'm not seeing any indication of new cars added to the 2023.44.30.1 - .4 set of builds.

On Teslafi, barely any cars go the .3 build, and only one (employee?) car got the .4 build.

It's looking more and more like there's a serious problem that isn't getting corrected.

Maybe they're trying to fix the wipers...

 

[sublimejackman]

Of course no one ever ran a stop sign or red light or hit a pedestrian before AP was invented... not! I've also been nearly hit head-on numerous times by idiots in non-Teslas who were clearly texting whilst driving and at least with AP (or equivalent) on they'd stay in their lanes and AP (or equivalent) would give everyone else a fighting chance to not get run down.

AP can't stop other drivers from hitting you, but it can detect stopped and crossing vehicles, pedestrians, bikes, etc and take appropriate action and I find it a useful aid even in a city, and it's especially useful in congested traffic. Is it perfect?: Not by a long shot, but it clearly states that the driver must be alert and be ready to take over.

FSD and AP are very different topics.

I think that's the big gap here. Like I get that Tesla says in the little warning screen when you turn on autosteer that you are still in charge. I get that people are responsbile for their own actions. I get that other drivers are often way worse than AP.

But, as mentioned earlier on this thread, Tesla isn't some scrappy upstart with a bunch early adopters buying 6-figure exotic luxury cars. Any Jim or Jane that qualifies for a $30k auto loan can one now and they do! Two million of them in fact.

So the risk of someone abusing it (the same drivers you mentioned above) is extraordarily high.

Like just in this forum thread, people are descrbing how and why they defeat the nags. Joking about how they look at their phones or have a weight on their wheel, etc.. Those people, combined with calling it "autopilot" and the company CEO telling people that they don't need to pay attention lead to even higher rates of misuse and to deadly effect.

Just because other cars kill people doesn't mean Tesla gets a free pass to release something different that kills people.

(And it's not even necessarily safer, that's your opinion. Until Tesla releases raw data that we can compare to safety in similar driving contions, their words mean nothing. Most people use AP on the highway and so all those miles are balanced against all miles driven which are mostly driven on back roads, not even close to apples to apples)

 

[69KWH]

Looking at those Model 3 distributions, I wonder if those of us with USS are choosing to skip the update while those without USS are updating to take advantage of 3D Park Assist

 

[Chewy13]

I assume you can now accumulate strikes and get suspended for a week on AP? As opposed for the drive? Want to get a strike to confirm?

What I'd like to know.. if you accumulate a strike, how long is it there for? Does it disappear after a week or two of driving without strikes? Or is it there until you hit 5 - get your 1 week timeout, and then reset to 0...?

 

[MP3Mike]

Or is it there until you hit 5 - get your 1 week timeout, and then reset to 0...?

That is my understanding of how it works.

 

[AndrewZ]

The rollout seems to have come to a grinding halt. I'm not seeing any indication of new cars added to the 2023.44.30.1 - .4 set of builds.

On Teslafi, barely any cars go the .3 build, and only one (employee?) car got the .4 build.

It's looking more and more like there's a serious problem that isn't getting corrected.

Maybe they're trying to fix the wipers...

Maybe one of the versions fixed the wipers so they halted the rollout in order to identify the fix and break it

 

[Supcom]

What I'd like to know.. if you accumulate a strike, how long is it there for? Does it disappear after a week or two of driving without strikes? Or is it there until you hit 5 - get your 1 week timeout, and then reset to 0...?

On FSDb, strikes never expire. There have been a couple cases where Tesla wiped the slate clean after an update, but it's been a long time since that.

Some people, who find themselves with one strike remaining, will intentionally strike out in order to reset the count before a long trip. Better than striking out mid way.

It would be better if Tesla timestamped each strike and had them expire after a month, or so.

 

[DuncanM]

I think that's the big gap here. Like I get that Tesla says in the little warning screen when you turn on autosteer that you are still in charge. I get that people are responsbile for their own actions. I get that other drivers are often way worse than AP.

But, as mentioned earlier on this thread, Tesla isn't some scrappy upstart with a bunch early adopters buying 6-figure exotic luxury cars. Any Jim or Jane that qualifies for a $30k auto loan can one now and they do! Two million of them in fact.

So the risk of someone abusing it (the same drivers you mentioned above) is extraordarily high.

Like just in this forum thread, people are descrbing how and why they defeat the nags. Joking about how they look at their phones or have a weight on their wheel, etc.. Those people, combined with calling it "autopilot" and the company CEO telling people that they don't need to pay attention lead to even higher rates of misuse and to deadly effect.

Just because other cars kill people doesn't mean Tesla gets a free pass to release something different that kills people.

(And it's not even necessarily safer, that's your opinion. Until Tesla releases raw data that we can compare to safety in similar driving contions, their words mean nothing. Most people use AP on the highway and so all those miles are balanced against all miles driven which are mostly driven on back roads, not even close to apples to apples)

As per my post above 'Autopilot' has never implied a fully capable robotic driver; in my younger days (mid 1970s) I did a lot of flying in light aircraft and we were always aware that the autopilot would blithely fly us into a mountain.

My 2020 Prius Prime had adaptive radar cruise control and lane keep assist as standard (lane centring was optional and now it and ACC is standard on all Toyotas) and it worked quite happily in urban driving, and of course it would/will happily blow through stop signs and red lights. Almost all new cars have the equivalent of AP these days and, quite frankly, we'd all be better off if everyone used it. I don't see the need to penalize millions of drivers to prevent a handful of idiots from abusing a system that is now so prevalent. Take a look at 'Wham bam Tesla Cam' and other accident video YT channels and note how many accidents are caused by inattentive drivers who plow into stopped/slow vehicles without ever touching their brakes. You don't have to have a PHD in stats to realize that lane centring and adaptive CC will save lives.

 

[Joesmoe3]

I just happened to be in the car just now, and saw the notice of software update 2023.44.1 would be updated at (clock roll) 0200 with the option to “Update Now” - which I did.

The release notes say “minor updates” - I see a repeat of the single pull self driving, and a note about charging destination to sites that are pay to charge now show how many stalls are available.

Said would take about 25 minutes, and to NOT drive the car until the update is done.

 

[Supcom]

I just happened to be in the car just now, and saw the notice of software update 2023.44.4 would be updated at (clock roll) 0200 with the option to “Update Now” - which I did.

No idea what’s in it.

Said would take about 25 minutes, and to NOT drive the car until the update is done.

Perhaps you misread something? There's a version 2023.44.1, with FSD 11.4.4. Teslafi shows nothing for a 2023.44.4.