Tesla Radar Speculation

[Tam]

...The vision worked flawlessly...

My Tesla cars are very sensitive to heavy rain. They just suddenly give up with the red steering wheel icon and loud siren for me to take over. Manual driving only for my Tesla cars in heavy rains.

In the opposite of rains. My Tesla cars also give up with the same siren alarm when facing the low sun on the horizon every morning and evening.

The trick for my Tesla is: If I can get the Autopilot runs first then override the Autosteering, the TACC will still work even with sun glare or heavy rains. Of course I have to manually steer but the TACC works so I don't have to brake or make sure to keep up with the car in front.

 

[ddeflyer]

One major issue I have with (what I can only assume is the lack of radar) is the forward collision alerts sounding when driving towards the sun in very bright conditions (happened twice now). I'm thinking I need to file a complaint with the NHTSA actually as the alert generally makes me slam my breaks which could cause someone to rear end me (since there is nothing to in front of me).

 

[ddeflyer]

Ok, I just filled a complaint about the alerts I've gotten!

 

[Mullermn]

The trick for my Tesla is: If I can get the Autopilot runs first then override the Autosteering, the TACC will still work even with sun glare or heavy rains.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you but you do realise you can turn on TACC without having to override anything? Just give a single pull down on the gear selector stalk and you get TACC with no autosteering.

 

[Yelobird]

One major issue I have with (what I can only assume is the lack of radar) is the forward collision alerts sounding when driving towards the sun in very bright conditions (happened twice now). I'm thinking I need to file a complaint with the NHTSA actually as the alert generally makes me slam my breaks which could cause someone to rear end me (since there is nothing to in front of me).

So your filed complaint will read, it alerts me of a concern and I slam on the brakes and get rear ended. Lol yeah that should raise a flag. With your license.

 

[Tam]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you but you do realise you can turn on TACC without having to override anything? Just give a single pull down on the gear selector stalk and you get TACC with no autosteering.

In bad visual conditions, I can't turn on either Autopilot or TACC.

When I know it has been raining or foggy very badly and when there's a break, I could turn on either TACC or Autopilot. I prefer to turn on Autopilot while I can. Then when I can see the condition starts to deteriorate again, I would shut off the Autosteer before it automatically disconnects both Autosteer and TACC with the loud siren alarm due to poor visual condition. I would use TACC and Autosteer if I can and wait to disable 1 out of 2 when entering into poor visual conditions. Of course, I can start the trip with TACC only but why not use both before reaching the poor visual condition?

I do travel in a convoy far apart sometimes and the lead car would tell me that the Autopilot has just failed in the fog ahead and that would give me time to switch from Autopilot to TACC only rather than waiting for the automatic disconnection of both in the fog.

 

[derotam]

One major issue I have with (what I can only assume is the lack of radar) is the forward collision alerts sounding when driving towards the sun in very bright conditions (happened twice now). I'm thinking I need to file a complaint with the NHTSA actually as the alert generally makes me slam my breaks which could cause someone to rear end me (since there is nothing to in front of me).

With respect...So when you slam on the brakes, is it because you cannot physically see in front of you because of the implied blinding sun and trying to use TACC as anything other than an ADAS feature? Perhaps don't drive if you can't see...put your visor down, wear sunglasses...

While I understand your complaint of a false alert, your reaction to it is a driver issue and nothing to do with the car.

 

[2101Guy]

So your filed complaint will read, it alerts me of a concern and I slam on the brakes and get rear ended. Lol yeah that should raise a flag. With your license.

True. Reporting phantom braking (or similar concerns where AP/FSD falsely takes actions) won’t raise any NHTSA attention

 

[ddeflyer]

So your filed complaint will read, it alerts me of a concern and I slam on the brakes and get rear ended. Lol yeah that should raise a flag. With your license.

I filed a complaint about a false alert on a clear road which creates a dangerous condition where there was none. Forward collision warnings are a last moment thing, your reaction time to analyze the situation means that anything other than an immediate stop is basically useless (assuming that you actually believe that the forward collision warning may see something you haven't). False forward collision warnings are like false fire alarms, if you don't trust the alarm then its nearly useless.

Also, the number of complaints for phantom breaking and false activation of the emergency braking is astounding; I don't get how this hasn't resulting in more than a voluntary recall!

 

[derotam]

Forward collision warnings are a last moment thing, your reaction time to analyze the situation means that anything other than an immediate stop is basically useless (assuming that you actually believe that the forward collision warning may see something you haven't)

Well no because there is a sensitivity setting that the user can adjust.

Now if you want to talk about AEB actually getting triggered then I would agree that it is a last moment thing.

 

[ddeflyer]

You must be a natural standup comedian.

Wow, insulting a little? I'm contending a material flaw in the system and filled a complaint; as consumers this is part of holding companies (Tesla and otherwise) to account for our safety while using their product. Tesla doesn't seem to provide data about this to regulators so we have to provide it ourselves. Do non Tesla cars randomly sound forward collision because there is too much glare? There is stuff that radar is good at and stuff that it isn't. knowing that something in front of the car is approaching at some speed is one of the ones radar is apt at. From what I am seeing so far, "Tesla vision" as it is in my car has common scenarios that it is not able to handle adequately.

 

[enemji]

Wow, insulting a little? I'm contending a material flaw in the system and filled a complaint; as consumers this is part of holding companies (Tesla and otherwise) to account for our safety while using their product. Tesla doesn't seem to provide data about this to regulators so we have to provide it ourselves. Do non Tesla cars randomly sound forward collision because there is too much glare? There is stuff that radar is good at and stuff that it isn't. knowing that something in front of the car is approaching at some speed is one of the ones radar is apt at. From what I am seeing so far, "Tesla vision" as it is in my car has common scenarios that it is not able to handle adequately.

The fact that you cannot see and the car cannot see and yet you want to continue driving, and in addition want to complain to NHSTA? If this is not funny, then what is?

 

[ddeflyer]

The fact that you cannot see and the car cannot see and yet you want to continue driving, and in addition want to complain to NHSTA? If this is not funny, then what is?

I was able to see fine, human vision is still dramatically better than most cameras especially when dealing with high dynamic range situations (which I think was the issue in this case). I had no idea if the car could see well or not (though evidently it couldn't at the time). My assumption is that if the forward collision alarm sounds then there is something that I was not aware of for some reason (for example if a child runs into the road from behind a parked car while I'm checking for cross traffic in the other direction, etc).

 

[enemji]

I was able to see fine, human vision is still dramatically better than most cameras especially when dealing with high dynamic range situations (which I think was the issue in this case). I had no idea if the car could see well or not (though evidently it couldn't at the time). My assumption is that if the forward collision alarm sounds then there is something that I was not aware of for some reason (for example if a child runs into the road from behind a parked car while I'm checking for cross traffic in the other direction, etc).

If you can see, Then step on the gas and keep driving. I do that all the time when there is a false alarm.

 

[ddeflyer]

If you can see, Then step on the gas and keep driving. I do that all the time when there is a false alarm.

If that is your reaction then I'd contend thats an example of exactly why false alarms are so bad; if you expect alarms to be false and then the real one won't grab your attention.

 

[enemji]

If that is your reaction then I'd contend thats an example of exactly why false alarms are so bad; if you expect alarms to be false and then the real one won't grab your attention.

Um No.
You are the primary driver, not AP or TACC. You make the call if the alarm is relevant or not by being watchful. You don’t attempt to make the call after the alarm has been raised.

 

[rjpjnk]

Now if you want to talk about AEB actually getting triggered then I would agree that it is a last moment thing.

I’ve had phantom AEB happen one time and it was terrifying. Fortunately no one was behind me.

 

[enemji]

Standard I-5 corridor between Seattle and Portland.

Maybe its that yours doesnt have passenger lower lumbar? All the sensors are the same minus the added weight of a dead radar (plus the year and a half of driving it with it actually working, without all of the radarless quirks)

Has your vehicle behaving like that since day 1 or after a certain period of usage/software update/ or some other change to the vehicle?

 

[Jjrss]

Has your vehicle behaving like that since day 1 or after a certain period of usage/software update/ or some other change to the vehicle?

Day 1: Radar was active. The car kept set distance perfectly, and closed the gap if the lead car accelerated or changed lanes. It was actually aggressive in closing gaps. I drove through snow conditions with Autopilot set for over a hundred miles from Portland to Seattle area. It only finally told me to take over when the front pumper froze over.

A couple months before Radar was disabled, I noticed the car needed more nannying on the "gas" peddle to keep distances with lead cars. I can only presume Tesla was dumbing down the radar slowly overtime until they finally disabled it outright in a SW update. Then the drybones window wipers were rampant as well as flashing oncoming cars with the highbeams. When fall hit in 2022 is when I first started getting the blue alerts that reduced speed by 10 mph without a single car in front of me, but several behind me. And the red wheel blaring alert while my 2 year old is sleeping in the back is always a joyous occassion.

The car's Autopilot is completely different now than when I first purchased it. I didnt buy it for the software, but have become completely dissatisfied from where it was, to where it is now...

I honestly don't see myself buying another Tesla. Might trade it in for an EV RAM if Tesla doesnt kill my resale value by the time it comes out. Its just a commuter car at this point, and does center lane keep really well as long as I stay out of the right lane... but I still have to nanny the speed to keep the car from drifting 10 car lengths fron the lead vehicle in the left lane during rush hour.

 

[enemji]

My Tesla cars are very sensitive to heavy rain. They just suddenly give up with the red steering wheel icon and loud siren for me to take over. Manual driving only for my Tesla cars in heavy rains.

In the opposite of rains. My Tesla cars also give up with the same siren alarm when facing the low sun on the horizon every morning and evening.

The trick for my Tesla is: If I can get the Autopilot runs first then override the Autosteering, the TACC will still work even with sun glare or heavy rains. Of course I have to manually steer but the TACC works so I don't have to brake or make sure to keep up with the car in front.

"Has your vehicle behaving like that since day 1 or after a certain period of usage/software update/ or some other change to the vehicle?" This query was attempting to find an answer to this behavior that you mentioned.