Tesla head on collision with a Honda

[jeff_adams]

It's impossible to say for sure, but it looks like damage to the front end on the passenger side from this photo. Of course looks can be deceiving and the front end might have just buckled under the hood on that side from the impact. The driver of the MS said he was "forced into oncoming traffic" by the mystery Mercedes in his 911 call. We know that driver is wanted for questioning and if it turns out to involve a collision prior to the Honda impact, that could be considered a "hit and run" felony. There is a lot of stuff the police have to investigate before assigning any blame.

 

[jomo25]

For me, I dont see the act of speculating as being disrespectful of those who lost their lives or minimizing the seriousness of the matter. Many people have offered their condolences and prayers. No one is denigrating the victims who lost their lives here. In some ways people are trying to understand what happened to minimize such occurrences in the future to prevent more innocent victims.

 

[josh]

While I don't know what these guys did, sadly I do know that I could project myself into this situation for sure.

With a superfast car, I've definitely swung around into an ending right lane with confidence that I can jet by some geezer in the left and go on my merry way.

And, I've also been the guy who sees that coming in the rear view and thinks, who the f* do you think you are, this is my right of way and by the way, it's not like you can even get past me.

As I get older, I'm much more likely to just let it pass, but not always. Sometimes I still try to freeze out the late merger, or outrun the right side passer. It always ends in disappointment, as they just jam in in front of me or someone else further ahead.

But one thing is for sure: if I'm in that Tesla, with the right of way... and that Merc swung around me with a rolling start from the light, and despite me pinning the throttle I'm still a half-car-length behind him when his lane ends and no way to stop him from merging in front of me... despite it being my right of way, even the 19 year old me would hit the brakes and let him go instead of keeping it pinned and drifting left. And I'm 100% sure (at least in the scenario in my head, that I have been in many times) that you are NEVER forced left, just a tap of the brake, even just the regen, is enough to let that guy have the lane. With the Merc out front, even if the tesla technically had the right of way to the lane, maintaining your right of way to the point of contact with a car out in front of you would be absurd. Now, if there were a flying coffee cup, or flying squirrel or whatever, I could understand that. Stranger things have happened, but seems unlikely.

Sad that the party with zero culpability bore the ultimate cost. I wonder if there is an Benz forum out there trying to reenact the tragedy from German ICE point of view. "Those 92 accords are a deathtrap... Tesla seems pretty solid but that car is toast. Look at the Merc... drove away from the scene without a scratch! Huzzah for German engineering!"

 

[riceuguy]

What you have there is something dangerous. Think if you are the driver of the Tesla and you didn't race og speed at all, that there is a completely different explanaition for the accident, and then you read these kinds of statements online. I know this forum isn't quite the daily news or whatever, but when things are said sometimes they are very difficult to take back. Think of people who are innocent but for one reason or the other accused of rape, child molestation etc. I know it's not the same but I do know that you will forever be known as "the guy who was accused of rape but got off". What if this driver is cleared in every possible way of any wrong-doing, but there is massive speculation online that leads to speculation in his community etc. etc. all leading to a situation where he will be forever known as "the guy who was racing his new car and killed two people and got away with it". I know it's all just words and "harmless" speculation and what not, but we are talking about a very serious matter. I will not post in the thread again.

Simply put, the driver most likely reads these forums, and if he is not at fault here (and I believe in the US we presume innocence, no?) then it is horribly unfair to talk about him negatively when he probably already feels tremendous guilt about the loss of life. If he was at fault, when that is established THEN we can all say how wrong he was, etc., but until then we should presume his innocence and discuss things like the incredible safety of the Model S, the value of safe driving, etc.

 

[K5ING]

Dude, enough with the wild speculation. I've seen movies with all kinds of crazy stuff happen but what ever in the world does that have to do with this incident. Face it, none of us know any more than what has been reported in the news, which mind you may be far from the truth. So let's all show some respect and refrain from any more speculation in this thread and await the facts.

Johan... Nobody is trying to say that they purposely recreated what I described in the movie or show, but I've seen similar things many times in my distant past. Two guys with too much testosterone that are unwilling to be the one who lets up and let the other get ahead. When the road goes from two to one lane, somebody has to be willing to drop back. When neither does, you get the results that happened here.

As for speculating what happened, I don't see it as disrespectful at all. It's totally natural to look at a situation like this and speculate as to what may have happened. If anything at all is disrespectful, it's commenting on great it is that the Tesla held up so well while wiping out the Accord. However, I respect the right for everyone to have their own opinion about any aspect of this tragedy, and would never diss someone for offering their two cents worth about it, including yours, as long as it's made with civility (which yours was).

 

[NielsChr]

I feel very sad to hear 2 life wasted this way.
my privous car was a old rover - made on same frame as a Honda acura - aprox 2 years ago I was 30 cm. away from a head on collision on the freeway - an old (73 years) woman hit my side mirror (by her side mirror), luckly she was not hitting the car (or maybe I did manage to turn my car a litle away) - things did happen wery quickly - afterwards I was confronting her with the fact that she just hit my car - she asked if she hat hit anything....
Here is a picture of my car - you can imagine what would have happen if she have hit 30 cm diffrent

it was posible due to work on the road where her's 2 lane did narrow down to 1 lane (she missed that point, and just continued into my lane)
after this shocking "event" I did then decide that my next cars should be a safe car - some time after I put a deposit for a model S

Back to tread: please take a look at the video in this acticle
sorry it is a danish news site, couldent get the direct link to the video
Ekstra Bladet - Feje bilister stikker af fra ulykke
this could very well be simmilar to what happen to the mercedes/Tesla

 

[dsm363]

Back to tread: please take a look at the video in this acticle
sorry it is a danish news site, couldent get the direct link to the video
Ekstra Bladet - Feje bilister stikker af fra ulykke
this could very well be simmilar to what happen to the mercedes/Tesla

Wow. Did everyone, including the car that basically caused the other car to flip over, just drive off and not check on those people?

 

[LagunaDallas]

The 2 victims were on their way to work at a landscaping company and left behind 7 children. I just saw the below (which has been set up by the LB Police Employees Association) and will be sending a check. Regardless of whether a Tesla was involved or not, this is likely an accident that could have been avoided and these families will suffer forever because of it. I'm sure that every little bit sent to the families will help.

Those in the community who wish to make a donation can mail a check made out to Alberto and Armando Memorial and sent to LBPEA, PO Box 4611, Laguna Beach, CA 92652.

 

[gene]

The 2 victims were on their way to work at a landscaping company and left behind 7 children. I just saw the below (which has been set up by the LB Police Employees Association) and will be sending a check. Regardless of whether a Tesla was involved or not, this is likely an accident that could have been avoided and these families will suffer forever because of it. I'm sure that every little bit sent to the families will help.

Those in the community who wish to make a donation can mail a check made out to Alberto and Armando Memorial and sent to LBPEA, PO Box 4611, Laguna Beach, CA 92652.

I'm sending a check today. Very sad.

 

[dtich]

The 2 victims were on their way to work at a landscaping company and left behind 7 children. I just saw the below (which has been set up by the LB Police Employees Association) and will be sending a check. Regardless of whether a Tesla was involved or not, this is likely an accident that could have been avoided and these families will suffer forever because of it. I'm sure that every little bit sent to the families will help.

Those in the community who wish to make a donation can mail a check made out to Alberto and Armando Memorial and sent to LBPEA, PO Box 4611, Laguna Beach, CA 92652.

gd, that's tragic. thanks for posting.

if nothing else i would say this horrible event will focus many other drivers' minds on scenarios like this and help to prevent them in the future.

 

[neroden]

http://www.all-about-car-accidents.com/resources/auto-accident/fault-car-accidents/fault-rear-end-collision-when-front-car-fault

The Assured Clear Distance Ahead rule, indeed. That rule is so basic that in railroads they actually design the entire signal system around it.

Looking at the cars as I drive around town, roughly 1/3 of the drivers actually follow the ACDA rule, and roughly 2/3 tailgate. Which is incredibly frightening if you think about it.

 

[mpt]

My UK motorcycle instructor told me I could ride as fast as I liked... He said "Ignore the speed limit, you can drive as fast as you can stop." It was in specific reference to both tailgating (which btw, there isn't a word for in English English) and rounding a bend or cresting a hill. It has stood me in good stead.

 

[Tommy]

From the Laguna Beach Independent: Investigators to Revisit Scene of Double Fatality | Laguna Beach Independent Newspaper, The - Laguna Beach News

Investigators to Revisit Scene of Double Fatality
Andrea Adelson | April 8, 2013 | 0 Comments
Accident investigators expect to return to the scene of a double fatality in Laguna Beach and will temporarily close Laguna Canyon Road between El Toro Road and state Highway 73 between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. on Tuesday, April 9, police said today.
The Multidisciplinary Accident Investigation Team based in Irvine lacked a needed piece of gear during the initial investigation, said Sgt. Louise Callus said Monday.
Each team consists of investigators with specialized training in traffic collision reconstruction, traffic engineering, automotive engineering, and vehicle dynamics, according to a California Highway Patrol website.
Police are seeking the help of witnesses that might have observed the actions of two outbound vehicles, a black Tesla and a white Mercedes, allegedly involved in the 6:41 a.m. collision Tuesday, April 2, Callus said. “That would absolutely be helpful,” she said, adding that both drivers underwent interviews with investigators.
The driver of the Tesla, who suffered minor injuries in the accident, told police dispatchers “a white Mercedes cut him off, making him go into oncoming traffic,” according to the police department log.
The Tesla’s owner is a Laguna Beach resident, while the owner of the Mercedes is not, said Callus, who declined to identify the individuals further.
A collection was also started on behalf of the families of the collision victims, Alberto Casique-Salinas, 47, of Anaheim, and Armando Garcia-Gonzales, 38, of Santa Ana, who worked for a Laguna Beach landscaping company and were en route together to work in a Honda, Callus said.
Donations to the collection begun by the police employees association can be mailed by check made out to the Alberto and Armando Memorial and sent to LBPEA, PO Box 4611, Laguna Beach, CA 92652.
Investigators are trying to determine whether racing or other factors contributed to the accident, Callus said, caused by the Tesla veering into southbound lanes and colliding head-on with the inbound Honda. “That’s what’s being investigated, to tie down what happened and why it happened.”

MBZ driver ID'ed and interviewed per the article and reiteration of where donations can be sent.

 

[strider]

From the Laguna Beach Independent: Investigators to Revisit Scene of Double Fatality | Laguna Beach Independent Newspaper, The - Laguna Beach News

Thanks Tommy. They found the MB - that is big news.

 

[vin5xxx]

Satellite image shows Tesla was not forced into on-coming traffic

My Model S has been in the shop for 9 days and I just got it back today. I decided to drive by the accident site as I live in the area. My first observation is that there was room for all 3 cars to pass safely. After the merge down to 1 North-bound lane there is a center lane that is closed to all traffic but there is no median to prevent you from accessing it. That is where the Tesla should have been. But instead he drifted out of that lane and into the Honda's lane - apparently due to excessive speed and the curve in the road. How do I know he wasn't forced into the Honda's lane by the Mercedes? Check out the Satellite images:

First an overview:

The Mercedes was in the right-hand lane heading North and the Tesla was to his left. After the El Toro 3-way intersection, the Mercedes lane ends and he should have yielded to the Tesla but instead forced his way into the Tesla's lane. The Tesla veered to his left so that the Mercedes wouldn't hit him which put him in the center lane (which is closed to traffic).

And a zoomed in shot:

In the zoomed in image you can see where the sign that says "Signal Approaching" to the south-bound traffic is located. It's at the top of the image. The sign is visible in the photos. So the Tesla came to rest just South of that sign and we can then approximate where the Honda came to rest from the photos as well. That is how I determined that the Tesla drove 500 feet in the wrong lane until the point of impact. I used an on-line calculator to determine how long it takes to travel 500 feet at 80 mph (randomly guessed their speeds). The answer is 4.6 seconds. That's how much time the Tesla chose to stay racing instead of slowing down after realizing he was not in a proper lane. What's worse is that had he stayed in his lane they all would have been safe. But his excessive speed likely drifted him into the path of the Honda due to the curve in the road. IMHO, that is vehicular homicide.

A couple of other observations:

- Some have mentioned that the satellite image shows that in the North-bound right-hand lane as it approaches the El Toro intersection is a right-turn only lane. Folks, that is an old photo. They have changed that lane so that it is no longer a right-turn only lane. So it's more likely that the Mercedes and Tesla were either racing through a green light at El Toro or that they started from a red light while sitting side by side. Almost no one turns right from El Toro heading North on Laguna Canyon because there is an opportunity to do so earlier on El Toro. So only someone who was lost would make that right-hand turn.

- Since there is no report of the Mercedes and Tesla colliding we can assume they did not touch. I am stunned that they have found the driver of the Mercedes with little evidence to go on. There are a TON of white Mercedes in and around Laguna. If the driver turned himself in that shocks me as I assumed someone who drives as recklessly as he does would be too selfish to turn himself in. And I am curious what charges he is now likely to receive. Vehicular homicide?

- Some here have suggested there aren't many Mercedes that can keep up with a Performance S. That is simply not true. AMG Mercedes are as common in these parts as Ford trucks are in the countryside. In fact, my AMG is for sale as it is no longer my daily driver.

 

[Kaivball]

The driver of the vehicle is responsible.

Period.

Even if it was an "accident" it was his actions that caused the collision: moving into the opposite lane.

He and he alone turned the steering wheel.

There is no right side damage to the Tesla. He was not slammed into or physically pushed over.

It was exactly his action of moving the car into the opposite lane that caused the accident. Nobody else was behind the steering wheel.

Looks like my assertion/opinion/guess was pretty accurate.

 

[jeff_adams]

What tool would they need to investigate the accident? They are shutting down the road for 4 hours. Somebody's story doesn't match?

 

[JRP3]

Looks like my assertion/opinion/guess was pretty accurate.

Why, because someone else made the same guess? His speculation proves nothing.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

What tool would they need to investigate the accident? They are shutting down the road for 4 hours. Somebody's story doesn't match?

Photogrammetric reconstruction? Takes a little while to set up proper( It is pretty neat though!)

 

[Zythryn]

Looks like my assertion/opinion/guess was pretty accurate.

It very well may be exactly correct. However drawing that conclusion because someone else made the same guess isn't really all that logical.
We are all looking for answers and hopefully we will soon have some.