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Eh, true enough, but I'm not sure I actually care about any of those things. Do I need to go 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, rather than 4.5? Not really. Supercharging? I always take the big gas guzzler SUV on road trips, much easier. Autopilot? The Jag has auto steer and ACC, as does the Tesla; I expect Tesla's is somewhat better, but until they really can drive themselves, who cares? And I believe real self driving is many years away.

The I-Pace also has advantages over the Model 3:
- Leasing available
- Hatchback
- Android Auto
- 360 degree surround camera view
- Extensive luxury features and options you won't find on any Tesla
- Maybe Jaguar can actually deliver on schedule!

I really like both cars, though they each have their quirks and shortcomings. Had Tesla delivered on its initial delivery timing estimate, or any of the next three estimates they gave me, I'd already be driving a Model 3. Maybe now I'll just wait and see who delivers first. ;)
Forum tech suggestion: in addition to "like," "disagree" etc. etc. there needs to be a "hey buddy, you posted in the wrong thread."
 
Nah. They used cheap, heavy and inexpensive carbon fiber technology that looks to be a technological dead end.
Looking at what you get as an EV the VW e-Up has more doors and useful space and does the small, cheap city-EV much better than the i3 IMHO. In spite of the i3 supposedly high tech design, the specs are almost identical. Slightly more powerful i3 and better interior materials, for about 50% more. Colour me not impressed with the i3.

Cobos
 
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Eh, true enough, but I'm not sure I actually care about any of those things. Do I need to go 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, rather than 4.5? Not really. Supercharging? I always take the big gas guzzler SUV on road trips, much easier. Autopilot? The Jag has auto steer and ACC, as does the Tesla; I expect Tesla's is somewhat better, but until they really can drive themselves, who cares? And I believe real self driving is many years away.

The I-Pace also has advantages over the Model 3:
- Leasing available
- Hatchback
- Android Auto
- 360 degree surround camera view
- Extensive luxury features and options you won't find on any Tesla
- Maybe Jaguar can actually deliver on schedule!

I really like both cars, though they each have their quirks and shortcomings. Had Tesla delivered on its initial delivery timing estimate, or any of the next three estimates they gave me, I'd already be driving a Model 3. Maybe now I'll just wait and see who delivers first. ;)

Tata...
 
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Eh, true enough, but I'm not sure I actually care about any of those things. Do I need to go 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, rather than 4.5? Not really. Supercharging? I always take the big gas guzzler SUV on road trips, much easier. Autopilot? The Jag has auto steer and ACC, as does the Tesla; I expect Tesla's is somewhat better, but until they really can drive themselves, who cares? And I believe real self driving is many years away.

The I-Pace also has advantages over the Model 3:
- Leasing available
- Hatchback
- Android Auto
- 360 degree surround camera view
- Extensive luxury features and options you won't find on any Tesla
- Maybe Jaguar can actually deliver on schedule!

I really like both cars, though they each have their quirks and shortcomings. Had Tesla delivered on its initial delivery timing estimate, or any of the next three estimates they gave me, I'd already be driving a Model 3. Maybe now I'll just wait and see who delivers first. ;)

Whatever suits you. To me sounds like a pretty bad tradeoff, especially when it condems you into taking roadtrips in a legacy gas car that you like now, but may hate soon.


My story:

In 2015 I replaced my VW Jetta with a 2015 VW eGolf instead of starting to pay for repairs for the jetta, which means we replaced our first gas car. My wife liked the Honda Oddyssey more than the Jetta anyways and despite less fuel economy would prefer to drive the bigger car to her longer commute.

We were thinking that road trips we always do in the 7 seater honda odyssey anyways, so the 85 mile range of our 'secondary' electric car wasnt going to bother me at all. We both used to love the Odyssey.

Funny thing is - a few weeks after I started enjoying the eGolf, the Odyssey started collecting dust and me and my wife were competing over who gets to drive the electric car. Obviously that meant in the long run, she was driving the eGolf to the further commute, and I am back to driving the Odyssey to the train station.

Me not having driven the Odyssey in a little while, now had to go back to driving it (you get the idea). I found it to be so unevenly accelerating, shuddering, smelly, that I thought something must have gone wrong with it, after all it was only a 2 year old car! So I brought it in to Honda for service. They checked it all throughout and said: No, everything normal as it should be. Sent me off with a free tank of gas. And I realized that I had just been spoiled by electric driving. Going back to a gas car was like handing in my smart phone for a landline, really hated it. The eGolf was able to remote control the AC, locate the car from the iphone etc, pretty bad in comparison to the tesla app, but better than not having it at all. And performance off the line was awesome.

After a few more months of collecting dust, we finally were trading it in for Model X90D in May 2016. Could not have been happier.Of course my wife is now driving that, and I was back to the eGolf, which I loved much more than the odyssey or the jetta it had replaced, but compared to the tesla.... I was putting in a reservation for the model 3 right after people stood in line, and january 2018 I finally took delivery. Could not be happier, super awesome car, 10 years ahead of what VW has. I also test-drove a Bolt in 2017, which was not bad, but nothing like the tesla. Basically felt like a 2015 VW eGolf with a bigger battery.

So long story short: You will likely regret taking the gas guzzler on a road trip, once you tasted the future.

But to each their own.

PS: 2015 is also when we added 10kW rooftop solar to our home, so filling up the eGolf for free vs spending $50/week on gas for the odyssey croaking around compared to the silent gliding ride of the eGolf was just getting even more annoying.
 
Whatever suits you. To me sounds like a pretty bad tradeoff, especially when it condems you into taking roadtrips in a legacy gas car that you like now, but may hate soon.

My story:
This all rings so true. We took the leap in January 2014 to a Model S, so I never had the intermediate step of finding out that *ALL* EVs are "just better". But since then being involved in various EV events like Drive Electric Week and talking to other makes' owners, I know for a fact that's true. I've test driven a few other EVs just to get a sense but of course I'm spoiled with the S and continue to be even after 4.5 years. The S has even brought back road trips for us as a very enjoyable activity.

HOWEVER, to remind myself of what an ICE is like, we occasionally rent them while on vacation in when we fly. Uggghhh.
 
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Slashgear has a glowing review of the Jaguar I-Pace

2019 Jaguar I-PACE first-drive review: The go-anywhere EV

This is the part that I find so funny.

"Unlike Tesla’s strategy, offering the Model X in three different versions depending on the capacity of the battery pack, Jaguar initially has just one I-PACE model so as to make things simple for the potential customer. Range certainly isn’t an issue, given the I-PACE can run for 480km or roughly 240 miles on a single charge. At the other end, a 100 kW DC fast charger can take the battery to 80-percent in 40 minutes. A Level 2 charger would take 10 around hours."

Were is this 100kW fast charging? Can I go coast to coast with this car?
 
Slashgear has a glowing review of the Jaguar I-Pace

2019 Jaguar I-PACE first-drive review: The go-anywhere EV

This is the part that I find so funny.

"Unlike Tesla’s strategy, offering the Model X in three different versions depending on the capacity of the battery pack, Jaguar initially has just one I-PACE model so as to make things simple for the potential customer. Range certainly isn’t an issue, given the I-PACE can run for 480km or roughly 240 miles on a single charge. At the other end, a 100 kW DC fast charger can take the battery to 80-percent in 40 minutes. A Level 2 charger would take 10 around hours."

Were is this 100kW fast charging? Can I go coast to coast with this car?
Well, I finally had to comment on that article, trying not to sound like a Tesla fanboi:

It is a good entrant in the overall EV market. Couple of questions: where are these 100kW chargers? Do they exist in such numbers and geographic locations to actually allow the iPace to be driven across entire countries? And, how many iPace will Jaguar be building over the next few years? I thought they announced something like 20,000 worldwide annually, which doesn't really put anyone on notice.

You go, Jaguar. EVs are the future. Just go faster.
 
Slashgear has a glowing review of the Jaguar I-Pace

2019 Jaguar I-PACE first-drive review: The go-anywhere EV

This is the part that I find so funny.

"Unlike Tesla’s strategy, offering the Model X in three different versions depending on the capacity of the battery pack, Jaguar initially has just one I-PACE model so as to make things simple for the potential customer. Range certainly isn’t an issue, given the I-PACE can run for 480km or roughly 240 miles on a single charge. At the other end, a 100 kW DC fast charger can take the battery to 80-percent in 40 minutes. A Level 2 charger would take 10 around hours."

Were is this 100kW fast charging? Can I go coast to coast with this car?

Say what??
The X comes in two pack sizes (both are above 237 mile range)

480 km is 297 miles, 240 miles (the actual spec) is 368 km.

90kWh pack, 100kW charge rate, 80% in 40 minutes?
What is the starting SOC for the charging spec?
40 minutes at 100kW is 67kWh, 80% of 90kWh is 72kWh. So it can take a full rate charge from 5% to 80% without throttling? That would be sort of impressive...

But this shows a lack of knowledge:
A state-of-the-art heat pump and heat exchanger system can convert thermal energy to power, for instance, charging the battery from waste heat. According to Jaguar, the system can convert 1 kWh of heat to 2.5kWh of electrical energy, in the process adding up to 50+ kilometers – or around 31 miles – of range.

No... you get more heat energy from the electrical energy used. It doesn't make electricity from heat.
2.5 kW of heat per 1kW of electricity would be the correct statement (no idea if their numbers are net or gross).
 
Well, I finally had to comment on that article, trying not to sound like a Tesla fanboi:

It is a good entrant in the overall EV market. Couple of questions: where are these 100kW chargers? Do they exist in such numbers and geographic locations to actually allow the iPace to be driven across entire countries? And, how many iPace will Jaguar be building over the next few years? I thought they announced something like 20,000 worldwide annually, which doesn't really put anyone on notice.

You go, Jaguar. EVs are the future. Just go faster.
I commented as well. Slashgear must have some serious lack of readers. Only 3 comments total since yesterday.
 
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And the other 50% is because they can’t get batteries. In Canada last month, the news came out that the 2018 model is no longer available and orders/purchasers will have to wait for the 2019 model year.

This, in microcosm is a problem many traditional car makers will likely face when public demand for EVs go up. Tesla is the only company in the world who has enough battery supply in the pipeline today to meet at least their production capacity for the next few years. If demand flipped tomorrow, Chevy has a tested long range EV on the road, but they can't get enough batteries to make much more than they are making now. The European auto makers are making moves to secure supply, but they won't be as far along as Tesla is today until 2021 or 2022 at the earliest.
 
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Problem with the Jag is that it will take something like 10-12 hours on a level 2 home charger. Really no excuse for that.

If Jaguar would have used the Tesla Supercharger Network, the iPace would be a very compelling vehicle. They would not even have needed to make it free - just make it hardware compatible and let folks deal with Tesla payments themselves. And since it is such a small production anyways, they would never come up with their own network. I guess they were thinking that CCS will be wide-spread enough one day. But I think it is a mistake. Nothing beats the supercharger network.
 
Problem with the Jag is that it will take something like 10-12 hours on a level 2 home charger. Really no excuse for that.
Well, that points out the fundamental misunderstanding that most non-EV owners have. It probably wasn't empty (depleted) when you plugged it in, so in reality it's always full in the morning. That's all that matters, except of course for long distance travel.
 
...which is apparently (according to news reports) because they can't get enough batteries.

I suspect this pattern to become very common among all the "tesla killers" in the next few years:
1. Well known car company X produces a Tesla killer EV
2. Customers realize it is better than the ICE offerings from X company and want to buy it => high demand
3. Company X unable to scale up production due to battery shortage
4. Significant portion of the customers buy a Tesla instead of waiting years for X-BEV

So the bottomline will be that all those tesla killers boost Tesla sales as they will be the only BEV with sufficient (battery) production capability.
 
I suspect this pattern to become very common among all the "tesla killers" in the next few years:
1. Well known car company X produces a Tesla killer EV
2. Customers realize it is better than the ICE offerings from X company and want to buy it => high demand
3. Company X unable to scale up production due to battery shortage
4. Significant portion of the customers buy a Tesla instead of waiting years for X-BEV

So the bottomline will be that all those tesla killers boost Tesla sales as they will be the only BEV with sufficient (battery) production capability.

#2 is the Catch-22 that probably keeps traditional car company execs awake at night. Most non-Tesla EVs have been compromised products in large part because no established car company is going to be able to make the switch to EVs quickly (they don't have designs to replace all their ICE at once and they don't have the batteries) and if the general public learned how superior EVs are in most ways, they would not be able to keep up with demand and many companies would be facing extinction as people hold on to their old cars longer until they can get an EV.

Traditional car companies not only face competition from Tesla, but they also face competition from their older cars. If consumers see they can get something a lot better than their current ICE if they are willing to wait a bit and keep driving their old car, or buy another used car, they will. And new ICE will become Osborned.

When you have a company like GM that can make maybe 100K long range EVs a year and 10 million ICE, if the ICE side of the company sees a sharp fall in demand, the company will be in deep trouble is short order. The Europeans are more willing to openly subsidize their companies, so I expect a lot of the European auto makers will get government help to surf the transition.

In the US, that will only happen when the Big 3 hit the ropes like they did in 2009. By then it may be too late. Ironically the feds may try to force Tesla to merge with one of the Big 3 like they did with the banks. And while it would be weird, it might help Tesla get established around the globe quicker. If they were going to take over one of the US Big 3, I would opt for Ford. Ford has the best reputation globally and has the most facilities in many countries. Tesla could convert engine plants to battery factories and convert final assembly plants to make existing Tesla designs.

The transition from ICE to EV hasn't hit full disruption yet. The disruption is still just beginning.
 
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