Superchargers super-slow

[Galve2000]

I believe we had SoC around 55% when we got there as that was the estimate from the nav. I do know we got 75 kW charging, as I'm very aware of this thread and the slowdowns going on and wanted to test this out.

See that's the thing tho... I would call max 75kW sub optimal charging. even at 55% SOC. I'm not saying that anything less than 115 kW makes me unhappy, bc most of us only hit those numbers for a brief, if blissful, period of time.

But I am saying that starting out with less than 90 kW max, even at 55% SOC on a 75kW battery, is suboptimal and there is something funny going on here.

You did definitely not experience SuperCharging at it's best -- nowhere near to it i'm sad to say. I supercharge very infrequently, and there is definitely a difference between the supercharging I had done in fall 2015/winter 2016 and the SCing i have done fall 2016/winter 2017. As we move into Spring 2017, I want to see how it will compare to Spring 2016.

As I stated earlier in the thread I think the main culprit is Tesla is limiting of commercial power demand charges. But it could be they are trying to limit wear and tear on the battery pack. At this point, this is all speculation.

 

[AWDtsla]

As I stated earlier in the thread I think the main culprit is Tesla is limiting of commercial power demand charges.

No way that's true when I'm the only car charging. This is not about the stationary end, it's all about what's in the car.

 

[csanders90D]

See that's the thing tho... I would call max 75kW sub optimal charging. even at 55% SOC. I'm not saying that anything less than 115 kW makes me unhappy, bc most of us only hit those numbers for a brief, if blissful, period of time.

But I am saying that starting out with less than 90 kW max, even at 55% SOC on a 75kW battery, is suboptimal and there is something funny going on here.

The rule of thumb I've always heard for supercharger taper is to add your SOC% to the charging kW, and the result should be around 120. In this case 55 + 75 = 130, so that's a really good charge rate for how full the battery was. If you want to see the really high kW numbers, you need to have a much lower battery charge. That rule of thumb has been around much longer than the recent questions about supercharger slowdowns, so I don't think that 75kW charge session indicates anything wrong at all.

 

[boaterva]

The rule of thumb I've always heard for supercharger taper is to add your SOC% to the charging kW, and the result should be around 120. In this case 55 + 75 = 130, so that's a really good charge rate for how full the battery was. If you want to see the really high kW numbers, you need to have a much lower battery charge. That rule of thumb has been around much longer than the recent questions about supercharger slowdowns, so I don't think that 75kW charge session indicates anything wrong at all.

Excellent, I'll make a note of that (that I'd seen and forgotten....).

 

[David99]

You have a non-P 85 pack. If nothing else, it's quite straightforward to show the charging and supercharging curves are different to my pack, forget about strain under discharge.

Temperature control means it does not matter you live in a warm environment. If we stop at a supercharger with a cold pack, it will unsupercharge very slowly until the pack warms. However if we've both been driving for 2 hours, our packs will be at the same temperature, whatever target the car set for itself depending on your configuration.

There is no such thing as a non-P pack. The battery packs are nothing to do with the motor configurations, neither the charge rate.

 

[AWDtsla]

There is no such thing as a non-P pack. The battery packs are nothing to do with the motor configurations, neither the charge rate.

There are a plethora of different packs at this point, with some number of cell chemistries, some number of cooling systems, some number of bonding systems, some number of fuses, some number of contactors, and who knows what else.

I wonder if Tesla even knows the combinatorics of pack hardware at this point, given that we know packs with different internal components seem to have shipped with the same part number.

 

[Galve2000]

No way that's true when I'm the only car charging. This is not about the stationary end, it's all about what's in the car.

That's fair.

In my most recent SC experiences, the SC output dropped considerably when a second car arrived at the SC (Tarrytown, NY)

We were not sharing a pair, but were the only 2 cars charging.

 

[apacheguy]

I wonder if Tesla even knows the combinatorics of pack hardware at this point, given that we know packs with different internal components seem to have shipped with the same part number.

First I've heard of this. Reference?

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Hot charge cable definitely slow the charge down. I was charging at a supercharger. I would not see over 80KW and it would slow to 60KW for a long time. I was around 60% SOC when I gave up and moved to the next stall on the same bank. No one was sharing with me before either. The cable was definitely warm to touch. Once plugged in to thr next charger I got up to 100KW before it started to taper. And mostly charged normally until I was done. When unplugging the cable was cool. So cable and connector hear definitely slow the charge down.

I say if you never see more than 60KW then it is most likely the cable heating up too much to sustain higher rate of charging. Just move to another cooler cable if possible.

I think tesla should run coolant on the thick cable if it wants to sustain high rate of charging.

 

[AWDtsla]

First I've heard of this. Reference?

Ludicrous 90 vs non Ludicrous 90, for starters. You could assume Tesla was giving everybody $20k worth of fancy inconel contactors and pryo fuses too, if that makes any sense. Need a lot of volunteers to void their warranty and open up their packs. Search this forum.

 

[xbox4me62]

My late 2013 P85 was at 50 miles of range 34k miles on the odometer, plugged into the supercharger and got 112kw. I'm pretty satisfied. The cable definitely was not too warm when i plugged in. I've plugged into a warm cable at the fremont SC and the car would only charge at ~65kw even at less than 50% SOC.

 

[EVie'sDad]

There are a plethora of different packs at this point, with some number of cell chemistries, some number of cooling systems, some number of bonding systems, some number of fuses, some number of contactors, and who knows what else.

I wonder if Tesla even knows the combinatorics of pack hardware at this point, given that we know packs with different internal components seem to have shipped with the same part number.

While the chemistry of the battery packs may vary, I suspect it is actually the wiring harness and motors that define the differences between the vehicles. The batteries themselves probably don't vary that much.

 

[apacheguy]

Ludicrous 90 vs non Ludicrous 90, for starters. You could assume Tesla was giving everybody $20k worth of fancy inconel contactors and pryo fuses too, if that makes any sense. Need a lot of volunteers to void their warranty and open up their packs. Search this forum.

Searching the forum is a painful process with the functionality built in. I'm a long time user so please just share the direct link to support your claim, as I do for others.

There was definitely a report near the beginning where one owner watched as a non L 90 kWh config was transformed via software to a PDL. I thought all 90 packs were built with the same hardware.

 

[Mattzilla]

This is really upsetting. My car will never top 87kW these days. Every time I call I'm given the same basic information every single time. Finally they forward it to the Supercharger team and I never hear anything about it again.

Last Saturday I arrived at an empty Supercharger with 9% SoC, having driven for 3 hour straight, temp outside was around 65 degrees. I tried several stalls and got the same result. I have the same experience at every Supercharger I visit, consistently. There has to be something up with my car, but getting Tesla to admit that has not been easy.

 

[oktane]

This is really upsetting. My car will never top 87kW these days. Every time I call I'm given the same basic information every single time. Finally they forward it to the Supercharger team and I never hear anything about it again.

Last Saturday I arrived at an empty Supercharger with 9% SoC, having driven for 3 hour straight, temp outside was around 65 degrees. I tried several stalls and got the same result. I have the same experience at every Supercharger I visit, consistently. There has to be something up with my car, but getting Tesla to admit that has not been easy.

It's not your car. Tesla is throttling the charging rates for unknown reason. It could be based on something related to your usage levels, fire safety, cost savings, battery longevity, peak demand limits by utility, or a combination factors. They know the reason, but will not disclose the reason to us.

I have had some charge rates over 100 kW at certain stations and max 35 kW at others. I don't know what determines the rate. My solution has been to avoid taking my Tesla on road trips and simply charge at home. This is probably the result Tesla was hoping to get.

 

[TexasEV]

It's not your car. Tesla is throttling the charging rates for unknown reason. It could be based on something related to your usage levels, fire safety, cost savings, battery longevity, peak demand limits by utility, or a combination factors. They know the reason, but will not disclose the reason to us.

I have had some charge rates over 100 kW at certain stations and max 35 kW at others. I don't know what determines the rate. My solution has been to avoid taking my Tesla on road trips and simply charge at home. This is probably the result Tesla was hoping to get.

No, Tesla is not "throttling" the charging rates. Oktane keeps repeating this claim with no evidence whatsoever. An anomaly does not demonstrate intent.

 

[Mattzilla]

No, Tesla is not "throttling" the charging rates. Oktane keeps repeating this claim with no evidence whatsoever. An anomaly does not demonstrate intent.

Do you think there might be something wrong with specific cars like mine then? I haven't seen 110kW+ since early last fall.

 

[oktane]

No, Tesla is not "throttling" the charging rates. Oktane keeps repeating this claim with no evidence whatsoever. An anomaly does not demonstrate intent.

What evidence do you have to support your claim that Tesla is NOT throttling charging rates? None.

You think it's coincidence that by the end of 2016, just as Tesla is announcing the end of free-unlimited super charging, charging rates begin to drop?

How do you rectify the low charging rates have recently been encountered at virtually all SC locations, across multiple states, and countless Teslas? Keep in mind, this was not reported to be an issue before 2016.

Do you think after 6 months of owners complaining, Tesla has no role in the charging rates, despite the live data they receive from every car and charging station, and everything being reported on TMC is a random coincidence?

Like I mentioned, no one knows the reason Tesla is throttling charging rates, but clearly this is a purposeful programming issue. Otherwise, we would not see fixed and binary charging rates (such as 35 kW) consistently at every stall, vs. random numbers.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I noticed I only get 1/2 the advertised rate because of hot connectors. It is possible the 87KW is because the connectors are worn out so it does not conduct as easily. Especially for stations with continuous use. Maybe cooling the connector will help with this problem.

This is really upsetting. My car will never top 87kW these days. Every time I call I'm given the same basic information every single time. Finally they forward it to the Supercharger team and I never hear anything about it again.

Last Saturday I arrived at an empty Supercharger with 9% SoC, having driven for 3 hour straight, temp outside was around 65 degrees. I tried several stalls and got the same result. I have the same experience at every Supercharger I visit, consistently. There has to be something up with my car, but getting Tesla to admit that has not been easy.

But like mattzilla said I do experience this also. A few times I was able to get 100Kw but only briefly and that was with a new connection to an unoccupied stalls, probabaly with a cool connector.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

What evidence do you have to support your claim that Tesla is NOT throttling charging rates? None.

Logical Fallacy: Argument from Ignorance.

You're making the claim, the burden of proof is on you, no one else.