Umm, Please don't ask for NEMA 14-50 plugs. Those are anything but high amp. If you are going to take up a precious parking space, at least install a 70A HPC. I'm guessing it could supercharge at about 3x that rate (~40kW) if the cooling system could keep up.
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Umm, Please don't ask for NEMA 14-50 plugs. Those are anything but high amp. If you are going to take up a precious parking space, at least install a 70A HPC. I'm guessing it could supercharge at about 3x that rate (~40kW) if the cooling system could keep up.
wiztecy
Active Member
I agree with Henry, 70A HPC is the only way to go. 14-50 plugs will bottleneck the parking while on charge and many Roadster owners won't have their mobile charger with them.
djp
Model 3 Performance
70A J1772 would make the most sense to make it available to both Roadsters and Model S.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
The problem with J1772 is that Roadsters will be waiting in line behind other vehicles that can use J1772. I don't think it is Tesla's intent to have Volts & Leafs charging at the Superchargers, free of charge. I'm happy to share in the wild, but Tesla has built up the SC network expressly for free use by Tesla customers.
I vote for 70amp HPC.
I vote for 70amp HPC.
There is no issue with other vehicles using the chargers a simple pin # lock assigned when you buy the car from Tesla will prevent other brands from using the SC system.
So yes the best solution is a Roadster HPC but my point was EVEN a NEMA 14-50 would be nice...anything for the roadster would be nice. Henry I think it would be far more productive to post comments on Facebook supporting the cause than picking on semantics of my Facebook post. Obviously you were on FB so please make some posts supporting Roadster charging.... just saying
By the way Henry your "can" is an amazing product and you're obviously an expert at mobile charging so no disrespect meant. I feel we need a team effort to get TM to add something for us to the SC network.
So yes the best solution is a Roadster HPC but my point was EVEN a NEMA 14-50 would be nice...anything for the roadster would be nice. Henry I think it would be far more productive to post comments on Facebook supporting the cause than picking on semantics of my Facebook post. Obviously you were on FB so please make some posts supporting Roadster charging.... just saying
By the way Henry your "can" is an amazing product and you're obviously an expert at mobile charging so no disrespect meant. I feel we need a team effort to get TM to add something for us to the SC network.
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dhrivnak
Active Member
I àm even fine with paying for the 70 amp charger. And that would likely keep the slow chargers out.
I'm sorry but I WAS NOT on Facebook. You are mistaking me for somebody else! I don't generally pick on semantics either. Or at least I like to think that:tongue:
Thanks. A team effort means the more people requesting it the better. I'm all for that so I suppose I should look up Tesla on FB.
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+2... The problem with access codes is they leak out to other people. And the MS already have superchargers so it doesn't need to be J1772. 40A charging while traveling is too slow to be practical but 70A often works. The cost of the chargers is not the problem. It's the cost of the parking spaces.
djp
Model 3 Performance
I'm all for more high speed chargers, but realistically I think it's going to be tough to convince Tesla to put in a dedicated infrastructure just for Roadster owners. With only 1,500 in North America there are probably only a few hundred who would take road trips - we don't have critical mass.
I'd rather see Tesla put their resources into converting the Roadster for SuperCharging instead of spending the money on a network of HPCs. And I think we'll have better success supporting efforts like Sun Country Highway to get high amp J1772 stations installed across North America. The network needs to be accessible by all EVs to give us the critical mass we need.
I'd rather see Tesla put their resources into converting the Roadster for SuperCharging instead of spending the money on a network of HPCs. And I think we'll have better success supporting efforts like Sun Country Highway to get high amp J1772 stations installed across North America. The network needs to be accessible by all EVs to give us the critical mass we need.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
If there isn't enough Roadster critical mass to justify the cost of putting in a 70amp HPC at each SC, then there definitely isn't enough Roadster critical mass to justify the engineering / manufacturing costs to convert Roadsters to allow SC charging. (But wouldn't that be great!)
Still think 70amp HPCs are the cheapest way to go. But I'll offer an alternative solution: Just give me a 500+ mile battery and I don't need no stinkin' SCs.
I'd be happy to be the testbed for Tesla proving out longer range batteries. Bring it!
One basic difficulty of SC'ing the Roadster is that during charging the 10(?) battery segments are paralleled so charging is actually done @44 volts DC, not @400 volts. This function performed by the 'two relays' Elon spoke of.
Looks like we're back to the original 'no brainer' solution: Have one 70A HPC at each SC location for Roadster use, and be done with it.
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Looks like we're back to the original 'no brainer' solution: Have one 70A HPC at each SC location for Roadster use, and be done with it.
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The Superstations should have 70A HPC with Model S connectors. They would act as a "backup" slower charge for Tesla's flagship product.
Then, Henry can make the CAN that converts the S plug to a Roadster socket like he showed at TESLIVE. Eventually someone will make a Model S to J1772 adaptor which means any EV can plug in at thise sites but at least we will know most of those people are serious road tripppers.
The last part of the Roadster equation is to have all Roadsters converted to the Model S socket. Totally eliminate the old Roadster standard that is basically orphaned on 2,500 cars (5 weeks of Model S production).
Then, Henry can make the CAN that converts the S plug to a Roadster socket like he showed at TESLIVE. Eventually someone will make a Model S to J1772 adaptor which means any EV can plug in at thise sites but at least we will know most of those people are serious road tripppers.
The last part of the Roadster equation is to have all Roadsters converted to the Model S socket. Totally eliminate the old Roadster standard that is basically orphaned on 2,500 cars (5 weeks of Model S production).
djp
Model 3 Performance
dhrivnak
Active Member
Possible WIN, WIN WIN??
I really like the idea of a adding a Model S HPC and then selling Roadster owners an adapter can, and I am 99% sure the Roadster will work just fine pulling it's maximum 70 amps.
Tesla wins as they obtain some great PR at virtually no cost by supporting Roadster owners as an adapter could pay for the installs. This will likely help them move the CPO's as well.
Model S owners win as those who plan on charging for more than 60 minutes can use the slower HPC and not block a more expensive super charger slot. I have read a number of posts where people plug in and then go see a movie blocking others.
Roadster owners win by making roadtrips possible up from the current very-painful.
Say an adapter costs $250, actual manufacting costs but then Tesla sells them for say $1000. The extra mark up covers the cost of the HPC's and power. If 1/3 of the Roadster owners buy it, Tesla's "take" is ($750 * 600 =) $450,000. The Model S HPC cost $1200 so I am sure Tesla's cost is less than $1000. Add $500 to install as an extra set of breakers and #6 wire is not that much extra with all the other work for a total cost of $1500. The $450,000 would cover 300 such installs more than the number of expected Superchargers.
I am 99% certain the communication is standard J-1772 as both cars work with J-1772 with simple adapters. So it would just be a simple pass through plug. This keeps out non-Teslas from using the new service.
Let me know what you think?
I really like the idea of a adding a Model S HPC and then selling Roadster owners an adapter can, and I am 99% sure the Roadster will work just fine pulling it's maximum 70 amps.
Tesla wins as they obtain some great PR at virtually no cost by supporting Roadster owners as an adapter could pay for the installs. This will likely help them move the CPO's as well.
Model S owners win as those who plan on charging for more than 60 minutes can use the slower HPC and not block a more expensive super charger slot. I have read a number of posts where people plug in and then go see a movie blocking others.
Roadster owners win by making roadtrips possible up from the current very-painful.
Say an adapter costs $250, actual manufacting costs but then Tesla sells them for say $1000. The extra mark up covers the cost of the HPC's and power. If 1/3 of the Roadster owners buy it, Tesla's "take" is ($750 * 600 =) $450,000. The Model S HPC cost $1200 so I am sure Tesla's cost is less than $1000. Add $500 to install as an extra set of breakers and #6 wire is not that much extra with all the other work for a total cost of $1500. The $450,000 would cover 300 such installs more than the number of expected Superchargers.
I am 99% certain the communication is standard J-1772 as both cars work with J-1772 with simple adapters. So it would just be a simple pass through plug. This keeps out non-Teslas from using the new service.
Let me know what you think?
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Tesla needs to fix the bug that prevents Roadsters from drawing 70A from an 80A supply. Then a Model S to Roadster adapter would make lots of sense.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Yes if true they should offer a fix. I just have yet to find a J-1772 above 30 amps so I have been unable to test anything higher.
Unfortunately it won't. It has a bug that reveals itself whenever the pilot signal is > 72A. But my adapter that vfx mentioned has electronics inside that overcome this bug. I'm gearing up to start selling them soon. The prototypes that I had at TESLIVE are being tested successfully but the machine shop I use is way backed up.
I wish my parts list was that cheap ($250). Not even close (don't worry I know you weren't attempting an accurate guess:smile
. The J1772 CAN adapter has 9 different suppliers - down from 11 when I first started making it.If it weren't for the bug, it would be a lot easier. While the MS connector looks simple, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. It requires a latch to hold it in, and I want to make it so releasing the latch will stop charging. It's far from simple unfortunately.
I think I should make the adapter, not Tesla:biggrin: But I might be biased:tongue:
There is no "if" about it... I have personally tested on a CS-100 and the Roadster does NOT work.
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