Do you have any idea how Gruber's component level repair of the BMB might impact the BMB pairing and calibration? (vs. just swapping the BMB itself.)
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Do you have any idea how Gruber's component level repair of the BMB might impact the BMB pairing and calibration? (vs. just swapping the BMB itself.)
Forgot about their SMT fuse replacement fix. (Pretty sure that's what it was, going from memory here.) That's... a weird fix, because those fuses shouldn't blow for no reason. I'd want to know what caused that before just throwing in a replacement part. But, that'd probably be fine, if it were the issue, since no software involved.
Unfortunately it seems with Condition Z, there's not a board component that needs replacing that will fix the situation. I think chemically removing the conformal coating, reflowing the board, re-conformal coating, etc... might work out for some cases. But other than that, it's going to need a BMB replacement that is programmed with the data from the original BMB.
Cleo-n-Company
Member
Musk and the Board are cozied up as warm and toasty as can be.
It's worth noting too that multiple members of the Tesla board have major investments in other nascent Crypto-currencies.
As a matter of fact, some of them also sit on the boards of other Crypto entities.
Ain't it great when the Board wields absolutely nothing over the CEO.
I think he meant the firmware update they pushed babied the battery and tried figuring what was wrong extended the life of the battery two years. Obviously its what it seems like they did not that they actually did. Again I aint no expert but I am not stupid either and know they did something.
Hey, since we actually kind of agree here, maybe I can get my first like ever from you?
I definitely think it'd be a nice gesture on Tesla's part to do something like extending the warranty on affected vehicles. I just don't think they will do such a thing.
Well, "meant" != "said". IMHO, one should not make declarative statements of fact unless one is prepared to back them up with facts. Otherwise, it's just FUD.
@wk057: Jason, thank you for all your work involved in this issue, and for posting your findings!
I wrote about this a few times, so want to follow up. At the same time when range dropped due to 2019.16 update, my AC started being extremely stingy, ie. I had to significantly reduce set temp to get cool air. I have zero doubt that there was a change through an update. It was such a drastic difference overnight. Air was still cold, but the car just wasn't blowing enough of it, and at times it would decide a manually set fan at 11 is not where i wanted it, so it changed it to 8.
Was this a part of the same issue? Here to stay or will change?
This to me is important. B/c while on the surface this mitigation as described has no to very low impact to owner, if the car continues to prioritize cooling of the battery over passengers, there is a reason for that, and there is a lasting impact to the owner (especially if you are in warm climate). It also begs the question, if it does not prioritize cooling of the battery at the expense of the cabin, what will happen. And unfortunately, seems to have rolled out at the same time, so on the surface, it seems connected.
If you have any experience with this and can share, I'd be interested to know. Thanks.
I wrote about this a few times, so want to follow up. At the same time when range dropped due to 2019.16 update, my AC started being extremely stingy, ie. I had to significantly reduce set temp to get cool air. I have zero doubt that there was a change through an update. It was such a drastic difference overnight. Air was still cold, but the car just wasn't blowing enough of it, and at times it would decide a manually set fan at 11 is not where i wanted it, so it changed it to 8.
Was this a part of the same issue? Here to stay or will change?
This to me is important. B/c while on the surface this mitigation as described has no to very low impact to owner, if the car continues to prioritize cooling of the battery over passengers, there is a reason for that, and there is a lasting impact to the owner (especially if you are in warm climate). It also begs the question, if it does not prioritize cooling of the battery at the expense of the cabin, what will happen. And unfortunately, seems to have rolled out at the same time, so on the surface, it seems connected.
If you have any experience with this and can share, I'd be interested to know. Thanks.
That's how it comes across to me. ^^^^
I guess I shouldn't really be surprised or concerned given the tons of electronic goods and $$$$$$$$'s that gets dumped due to predictable failures like electrolytic cap's - where a 10 cent component relegates $1000 equipment to the trash - protected by so many regulations (in some countries) making it totally impossible to carry out cost effective repairs.
That NASA article posted ways back here identified stuck FETS as a (relatively) common failure in BMS designs. It is more than frustrating to think that the batteries are effectively unrepairable at scale. Not a good environmental message, and surely something that must be addressed.
^^^^^ This!
I'm sure that's been discussed too. It is a real drag that (rightly or wrongly) these problems can't be fixed. I get why not. But it still sux.
And as a complex safety critical sub-assembly you can see why Tesla can't have repairs going on all over the place. As soon as you open the pack, various safety issues come into play.
All of which adds up to something of a detraction from the 'ideals' one would like to imagine we buy into.
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lightningltd
Member
Figures. I had to PAY to replace mine. Total cost with towing was over $1,500.00! And to give me a slap, they were out of 64G cards and put in an 8 gig one, and of course my vin is not listed since it was replaced with the crappy 8 gig one
And another slap: I got the damn email about the first voluntary recall a week after having it done.
What a bunch a crap.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's a bit off topic for this thread, but according to the recall, if you have a 8GB card, you are eligible for the recall. There is no other test specified for recall eligibility than 8GB. Note that the recall VIN search tool may not be up to date yet (I remember some tried early on and it didn't work).Figures. I had to PAY to replace mine. Total cost with towing was over $1,500.00! And to give me a slap, they were out of 64G cards and put in an 8 gig one, and of course my vin is not listed since it was replaced with the crappy 8 gig one
And another slap: I got the damn email about the first voluntary recall a week after having it done.
What a bunch a crap.
"Is Tesla offering to replace the component and how long does the replacement take?
Yes. Tesla will inspect your vehicle to determine if it contains an 8GB eMMC and, if present, we will replace the 8GB eMMC free of charge with an enhanced 64GB eMMC..."
Also if you paid in the past to fix this issue, Tesla will reimburse you, but they won't be announcing the details until later in the year.
"I previously paid to repair or replace my MCU due to the condition described in the recall. Can I be reimbursed?
If you previously paid for a repair for the specific part and condition covered under this recall, then you may be eligible for a refund subject to certain terms and conditions. We will contact owners of affected vehicles with more information on reimbursement eligibility, terms and conditions, and how to request reimbursement by the end of March 2021."
Hey, since we actually kind of agree here, maybe I can get my first like ever from you?
I definitely think it'd be a nice gesture on Tesla's part to do something like extending the warranty on affected vehicles. I just don't think they will do such a thing.
Maybe work your twitter magic and see if Elon replies!
cousin_IT
Face provided by boredhumans.com
As @wk057 pointed out the economics of replacing BMB's don't add up. If you ran Tesla and had to address this problem given the fact you could not afford to give everyone a new battery what would you do? You could ignore the problem or you could dedicate some of your smartest engineers to mitigate it. Tesla opted for the latter and according to @wk057 they did a terrific job.
Today all of us are driving these awesome cars that, when introduced, pushed the limits on what was possible almost a decade ago. The Model S will go down in history as a trailblazer for EV's and like any other car that was a first, it is not without its flaws (just like a Citroen DS for example). The rule of thumb is that if you want a perfect car, you don't buy the first version. We all did and thus we end up paying to fix some of the flaws. This is a fact. I dislike it, but I like the car more
If this is not for you sell your MS and buy something else.When did wk057 claim to be an expert at the economics of BMB replacement for Tesla except for its logistics nightmare.As @wk057 pointed out the economics of replacing BMB's don't add up. If you ran Tesla and had to address this problem given the fact you could not afford to give everyone a new battery what would you do? You could ignore the problem or you could dedicate some of your smartest engineers to mitigate it. Tesla opted for the latter and according to @wk057 they did a terrific job.
Today all of us are driving these awesome cars that, when introduced, pushed the limits on what was possible almost a decade ago. The Model S will go down in history as a trailblazer for EV's and like any other car that was a first, it is not without its flaws (just like a Citroen DS for example). The rule of thumb is that if you want a perfect car, you don't buy the first version. We all did and thus we end up paying to fix some of the flaws. This is a fact. I dislike it, but I like the car more
The affected cars are NOT the first versions of S! And certainly Tesla can afford to fix the batteries these days! Others like GM and Hyundai can and their market cap is a fraction of Tesla
Hyundai reportedly set to replace Kona LG batteries in Korea - Electrek
A beauty with flaws?:
Top Car Designers Voted Citroen DS Most Beautiful Car of All Time
I've had this issue too. Not sure why the car decides to do this, but it seems random. I'll check and see if it's still present this summer; maybe it went away a few updates ago.
That is worrisome, but hopefully companies like Straubel's will make this less of a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if in addition to reclaiming the raw materials, some of these companies realize that rebuilding batteries from perfectly good materials is also a good idea. Imagine the company gets in a batch of "ruined" batteries and fires up the furnaces, but does a spot check on a few modules before tearing them apart, to find that they're perfectly fine and it was just a few circuit boards that died... Seems like an opportunity.
Had to read that a couple of times. One of the top ten market cap companies in the world can't afford to replace 2k batteries? That's funny
This is probably not about saving money for Tesla and is perhaps more likely about attempting to set a precedent.
dark cloud
Active Member
I am doing the math, and that doesn't sound like much money, compared to the price of a "new" 85kWh pack from Tesla, which is still ~20-22K.
You must have a stockpile of complete BMS boards for packs, if you are ripping down the batteries and selling the modules. Replacing that whole BMS, if required, and perhaps one module with a faulty cell, would cost how much? 5K? Does it require reprogramming for it to work?
If 10K was the bill for this I am sure there would be many who would do it.
I'm confused how that doesn't seem like a opportunistic market for someone with the expertise to perform this work.
cousin_IT
Face provided by boredhumans.com
10K for a small range increase isn't very attractive IMO
We will certainly do so. Will leave the Tesla magic for others
I do have an ongoing DM thread with him on Twitter, and he's generally pretty responsive. He reached out a couple of years ago, and so far all positive developments there. (MCU1 eMMC situation is resolved partly due to these conversations, for example). It's a line of communication I use sparingly, and definitely not one I ever plan to abuse. Just have to not miss 3AM local-time messages. haha
It's a matter of resources. Yeah, I have tons of BMBs, and the knowledge to make it all work. But it's kind of a pointless venture given there is a fix available in the form of software. Why am I going to put a couple of guys on such a task when there's better things they could be doing?
I'm not a salesman or a con artist... so if I don't think something's in the customer's best interest, even if it benefits my pockets, I tell them straight up that it's not something I suggest doing. If after that they still decide they want to move forward with something despite my objections, then that's a different story. So while I probably could spread FUD and be like, "Get your BMB replacements scheduled today for the low low price of only $4,999!" ... that would be against my nature and would be quite unethical IMO.
I agree. I get a lot of people wanting battery upgrades. When I tell them the pricing, the amount of range they'll gain, etc... most people realize it doesn't make sense. I've had a few who just love their exact car and want to just upgrade and keep it forever. For example, I have a customer with a VIN under 100 2012 signature Model S who is now dual motor performance 100 kWh with AP1 now... because he just loves that car... doesn't matter to him that he could have bought 2 more for what he spent on that one. But I always tell people if I think something makes sense for them or not, and I don't try to upsell something they don't need.
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