I know there is a slower charging profile that has been implemented but many people are seeing well below this. Seems like there is an additional condition that is causing the throttling. I'm wondering if that's what can be reversed with a low SOC as per the paper.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
The higher the voltage of 18650 cells and the longer they are left there ...the more they clog up (tendrils...think tea bag but for charged Ion's)
When storing 18650 big battery packs for ebikes I always recommended store at 60% if leaving for a few months and disconnect the BMS as they always were powered by 1 out of the 16 serial modules and made the pack very unbalanced. But mainly 60% so as to reduce the tendril accumulation when stored at near capacity for too long
When storing 18650 big battery packs for ebikes I always recommended store at 60% if leaving for a few months and disconnect the BMS as they always were powered by 1 out of the 16 serial modules and made the pack very unbalanced. But mainly 60% so as to reduce the tendril accumulation when stored at near capacity for too long
By "imposed", I meant it doesn't matter how low my SOC is when you start charging. In my case, the curve slop is pretty much the same. I'm one of those owners who is seeing well below the slower charge profile. Those academic papers and the recommendations discussed are generic guidelines, predate the new chargegate algorithms and I have seen no evidence they can apply to the Tesla cars, let alone to be a cure or a bypass for the chargegate. Tesla is meticulously limiting how much capacity our cars can hold and how fast.
Nothing as such has been conveyed by Tesla. The Tesla's sophisticated BMS, per Tesla, was supposed to take care of all that, low SoC, high SoC, hot, cold, empty, full, sitting idle, AC charging, DCFC, etc. Plug it in, charge it to 90%, leave it there, drive it, be happy, don't worry about it we have your back. That was the message. Are you saying the Tesla BMS has screwed up our batteries by pushing the envelope way too far? I do.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
I used to charge to 80% daily so my car would be ready for my commute.
Now the battery coolant pump runs unnecessarily when charging to 80% so I have dropped my daily to 75%.
This is an interesting insight because several of the fires that prompted Batterygate were in cars that had been parked for days. If you're right about them it sounds like nearly all Tesla batteries have a design flaw.
Most ebike ....all ebike batteries are charged to 100% as in 4.2v per series of cells. They are good for about 300 charges like this before they start losing capacity. 90% is actually not that bad really and should seriously extend the life of the battery exponentially. 70 to 80% is even better but 90% is a huge improvement over 100%.
Ebike batteries are also left on the charger for long periods of time and saturated with charge at 4.2v in fact the bms on ebikes only really start balancing at 4.2v ....usually 4.2 to 4.25v
Charging Tesla to 100% and then going on long run is ok, it's when you leave the battery at 100% you will start to have issues.
For me 90% is ok, jumping in and taking 30 miles range, 50% charge rate and regen is not ok!
My service with Tesla ended with remote diagnostics and a brief conversation via text messages. As expected they claim 'everything is fine with your battery'. When I asked for a report or data from the diagnostics they refused and waived the diagnostic fee right away.
Not going to post the entire conversation here, but they admitted they are 'artificially limiting the charge level to prevent a sudden loss of range' (=failure of the battery pack). I take that as confirming the theory that they know the packs will fail and they are trying to delay it until the warranty period is over.
Another interesting thing is they claimed my battery needs balancing and in order to bring my pack back in balance I should drain the battery down to 20% and then charge to 90% several times a week and do that for 3-6 months. Then check back. I have monitored my battery balance for 4 years and it has always been excellent with 4 mV. It hasn't changed, ever. So I know my pack is not out of balance. The other thing is the proposed procedure. That's just nonsense. It doesn't take the pack 6 months to balance. I interpret that as, go away we need time to figure out out problem.
Not going to post the entire conversation here, but they admitted they are 'artificially limiting the charge level to prevent a sudden loss of range' (=failure of the battery pack). I take that as confirming the theory that they know the packs will fail and they are trying to delay it until the warranty period is over.
Another interesting thing is they claimed my battery needs balancing and in order to bring my pack back in balance I should drain the battery down to 20% and then charge to 90% several times a week and do that for 3-6 months. Then check back. I have monitored my battery balance for 4 years and it has always been excellent with 4 mV. It hasn't changed, ever. So I know my pack is not out of balance. The other thing is the proposed procedure. That's just nonsense. It doesn't take the pack 6 months to balance. I interpret that as, go away we need time to figure out out problem.
What about your service appointment? I thought there were other things they were going to look at. Did they tell you they were going to do a remote diagnostics test on your battery?My service with Tesla ended with remote diagnostics and a brief conversation via text messages. As expected they claim 'everything is fine with your battery'. When I asked for a report or data from the diagnostics they refused and waived the diagnostic fee right away.
Not going to post the entire conversation here, but they admitted they are 'artificially limiting the charge level to prevent a sudden loss of range' (=failure of the battery pack). I take that as confirming the theory that they know the packs will fail and they are trying to delay it until the warranty period is over.
Another interesting thing is they claimed my battery needs balancing and in order to bring my pack back in balance I should drain the battery down to 20% and then charge to 90% several times a week and do that for 3-6 months. Then check back. I have monitored my battery balance for 4 years and it has always been excellent with 4 mV. It hasn't changed, ever. So I know my pack is not out of balance. The other thing is the proposed procedure. That's just nonsense. It doesn't take the pack 6 months to balance. I interpret that as, go away we need time to figure out out problem.
jaitch
Member
What is your pack voltage delta when at 1300 amps?
Eg your SOC, unloaded voltage is 370 volts and when you WOT it to 1300 amps your voltage will drop to something like 290 volts. Using these numbers you can work overall pack resistance and then compare to calculated resistance.
Let me have you numbers and I will compare to numbers I have. I am interested in what shows up re pack resistance.
Curious, did they give you something in writing (an invoice type document) or just verbally?
My service with Tesla ended with remote diagnostics and a brief conversation via text messages. As expected they claim 'everything is fine with your battery'. When I asked for a report or data from the diagnostics they refused and waived the diagnostic fee right away.
Not going to post the entire conversation here, but they admitted they are 'artificially limiting the charge level to prevent a sudden loss of range' (=failure of the battery pack). I take that as confirming the theory that they know the packs will fail and they are trying to delay it until the warranty period is over.
Another interesting thing is they claimed my battery needs balancing and in order to bring my pack back in balance I should drain the battery down to 20% and then charge to 90% several times a week and do that for 3-6 months. Then check back. I have monitored my battery balance for 4 years and it has always been excellent with 4 mV. It hasn't changed, ever. So I know my pack is not out of balance. The other thing is the proposed procedure. That's just nonsense. It doesn't take the pack 6 months to balance. I interpret that as, go away we need time to figure out out problem.
This sounds like the typical Tesla response it’s their tech so I would not expect them to give you any information they are probably told not to anyhow. I also would not expect much information till after the lawsuit is done unless more batteries fail IMHO. I was lucky and got mine replaced but still follow this thread. Knowing what I know now I don’t charge over 90% and also never leave my car sit with more than 50% for long periods of time. I also don’t charge to 100% unless on a road trip. I also think the lesson learned is Tesla pushed the envelope too far and the batteries. Now they realized it and are waiting to fix an issues which they apparently didn’t anticipate.
I wonder if the three battery pack failures reported in this thread are related to the new diagnostics that Tesla mentioned in a recent firmware release... (One of them mentioned that his battery was capped.)
Ferrycraigs
Member
Exactly the thought I keep coming to, and keep hoping is wrong.
But if it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck.......
islandbayy
Active Member
That means it will crap all over your driveway!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Trying to get up to speed on this issue but have any 100kwh packs or Model 3 packs been affected?
Which version was that? My car’s Release Notes are blank.
Edit: it's 40.2.3 2019.40.2.3 for AP1 cars which I got in the end of November.
I haven’t seen any legitimate posts indicating 100 or 3 packs are capped. And I’ve read all ~9300 posts.
bjorn posted evidence his model 3 pack is capped post sale, but it's a different cap method than the typical batterygate ("bottom" versus "top")
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