Stalk or no stalk argument [not] settled

First, we should analyze the matter without considering that the brand Tesla is making these changes and understand from a automotive/ engineering/ ergonomic point of view that whether indicator in steering has benefits compare to stalk. If it does, I'll accept that.

Obviously there is always a trade off in anything.

Having stalk as an independent module that it's functionality is not influenced by the functionality of another module (steering). Ergonomically, we apply force by our arms to move the steering, and we operate the stalk by our fingers (not thumb). This configuration only make sense if the steering is round. So stalks works with a round steering.

The no stalk configuration is ergonomically acceptable if there is a yoke. And only if the yoke doesn't need to turn not more halfway. In this case your thumbs are always where they suppose to be to function.

Another issue is the gear Selector.

First, I don't know what how you would select gear if you break your screen. Second, if you have a yoke configuration, the intent is to keep you hands on the yoke all the time. But that conflicts with selecting gear because to select gear you have to take you hand off the yoke and touch the screen.

Another issue is that selecting gear on screen mandates eye engagement (but not the stalk) which again defeats the purpose of buttons in yoke.

So the no stalk configuration only makes sense if the gear Selector is also on the yoke and the yoke only turns halfway.

 

[Zilla91]

But why would you?

Why not?

 

[father_of_6]

I took a test drive of the Model X today, first time driving a stalkless Tesla (so yes, my previous posts could be called conjecture). This one had a wheel, not a yoke. I really did go into it with an open mind, and below was my experience.

- Gear selection -

Regarding changing gears without stalks - using the screen is not that bad. I *still* prefer the stalk and think it's objectively better... but using the screen wasn't orders of magnitude worse.

One can still change from drive to reverse and back without coming to a complete stop (5mph and under), but it does take a bit of a glance to do... so eye distraction. It's the same type of peripheral vision attention that the speedometer on a 3/Y requires.

If my Model 3 came with no stalk for gear selection, I would've just gotten used to it and not known how nice the gear stalk experience was for comparison... which to me is much better than the gear selectors I've had on any ICE.

Having experienced both... my opinion remains unchanged - I prefer the stalk. My Model X test drive was rather uneventful, but had I needed to execute a quick 3-point-turn with oncoming traffic, it would've been a bit slower and does require moving one hand/arm further from the wheel.

Those that have been driving one for a year are probably very proficient at it, but my guess is that if there was a competition between 1000 stalk drivers vs 1000 stalkless drivers, the stalk drivers would have a faster average 3-point-turn time.

- Turn Signals -

The turn signals (and for that matter, all of the haptic controls on the wheel) were the bigger problem for me.

I tend to "one-hand" the wheel sometimes (right or wrong), using my left hand and exactly where the turn signals are. This resulted in my palm regularly triggering the right turn signal accidentally. I could adjust my hand position, but the fact that anyone has to do that IMO is a fail. Holding the stalkless wheel at 9 or 3 o'clock can be problematic.

Overall I feel like the haptic controls took too much eye attention and also present a problem because the steering wheel turns. These are the typical arguments made against them on the forums and I found them to be true.

While it likely gets easier over time to use those controls, they are still objectively a worse design (in my subjective opinion). Anyone driving one for a short time (rental, friend moving your car for you, etc) will still be at a disadvantage.

The only advantage I can possibly see to stalkless is cost cutting, but to cut costs by removing stalks and then increase costs by adding vented seats / rear screen / dash LED / etc in the Model 3 revamp doesn't sit well with me. Whatever the cost savings were from stalkless, I'd rather pay for it.

 

[CoffeePowered]

All this stalk/stalk-less arguments will be moot in a few years anyways when Telsa introduces a new way to drive a Telsa. No stalks, no steering wheel, no pedals, just this

 

[BigNick]

All this stalk/stalk-less arguments will be moot in a few years anyways when Telsa introduces a new way to drive a Telsa. No stalks, no steering wheel, no pedals, just this

Bonus, you can play the Tesla Arcade games with it!

 

[father_of_6]

All this stalk/stalk-less arguments will be moot in a few years anyways when Telsa introduces a new way to drive a Telsa. No stalks, no steering wheel, no pedals, just this

This would actually work better than the haptic buttons and stalkless driving, because one doesn't need to rotate the controller (although my 4-year old does it anyway)... so the buttons always stay in the same place.

 

[shahryaran]

This would actually work better than the haptic buttons and stalkless driving, because one doesn't need to rotate the controller (although my 4-year old does it anyway)... so the buttons always stay in the same place.

Is that why gamers buy expensive high accuracy wheels for racing games to replace their controllers?!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Is that why gamers buy expensive high accuracy wheels for racing games to replace their controllers?!

Wheels are closer to real life (which is the goal of racing sims) and allows gamers to squeeze out the best times, but most people say the controller is far easier to use and actually someone with zero experience with both will get better times with the controller. The issue with most controller setups is they have the accelerator/brake set to a button that is not set up for pressure sensitivity (or does so poorly), which does not allow for modulation. However, some people change that to a stick and that allows that control. Trigger buttons with larger travel also can provide similar functionality.

 

[father_of_6]

Wheels are closer to real life (which is the goal of racing sims) and allows gamers to squeeze out the best times, but most people say the controller is far easier to use and actually someone with zero experience with both will get better times with the controller. The issue with most controller setups is they have the accelerator/brake set to a button that is not set up for pressure sensitivity (or does so poorly), which does not allow for modulation. However, some people change that to a stick and that allows that control. Trigger buttons with larger travel also can provide similar functionality.

Then it's settled. Yay, controllers for steering at the next refresh!!

 

[freeAgent]

Using a video game controller worked out great for the OceanGate Titan...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Using a video game controller worked out great for the OceanGate Titan...

There is zero evidence the video game controller contributed anything to the failure of the Titan. Rather it's suggested it's the stresses on the carbon fiber hull.

 

[freeAgent]

There is zero evidence the video game controller contributed anything to the failure of the Titan. Rather it's suggested it's the stresses on the carbon fiber hull.

It's a good thing I was joking!

 

[addictd2wasabi]

Great discussion. Hope Tesla pay's attention and changes their decision about the stalk faster than they did with the yoke.

In the end, put your money where you want. As a Tesla shareholder, referrer and owner who was going to expand the number of Tesla's in the family, I'll go with my preference for a stalk. If no stalk option, even aftermarket, that'll be it for me until something entices me back

 

[whitex]

Great discussion. Hope Tesla pay's attention and changes their decision about the stalk faster than they did with the yoke.

In the end, put your money where you want. As a Tesla shareholder, referrer and owner who was going to expand the number of Tesla's in the family, I'll go with my preference for a stalk. If no stalk option, even aftermarket, that'll be it for me until something entices me back

We just have to watch the new stalkless M3 sales, see if they drop like the S/X did after the yoke.

For me, the yoke was the last straw which made me switch out household from all Tesla to all VWAG. Now that it's done, it would take more than just stalks to restart buying Teslas again. Then again, I am more in the performance luxury car market (4 Model S'es to date) rather than utilitarian EV market, so perhaps I'm just no longer in the intended Tesla target market.

 

[SalisburySam]

But isn't the 18-year-old non-driving unlicensed gaming-focused developers and programmers decide what is the right thing is?

FTFY.

 

[kpanda17]

Great discussion. Hope Tesla pay's attention and changes their decision about the stalk faster than they did with the yoke.

In the end, put your money where you want. As a Tesla shareholder, referrer and owner who was going to expand the number of Tesla's in the family, I'll go with my preference for a stalk. If no stalk option, even aftermarket, that'll be it for me until something entices me back

I’ve driven a new MS no stalks and it was a non issue
Except for roundabouts, a slight challenge, but with practice I would have gotten that mastered

Remember every change in life comes with challenges and then we’re good

I remember the real keyboard on my blackberry and now I am using dictation more and more on my iPhone
We handle change

VW just admitted they are not competitive
Tesla is for they cost cut everywhere that is optional
No stalks, but we get ventilated seats
I like the change

 

[smogne41]

I’ve driven a new MS no stalks and it was a non issue
Except for roundabouts, a slight challenge, but with practice I would have gotten that mastered

Remember every change in life comes with challenges and then we’re good

I remember the real keyboard on my blackberry and now I am using dictation more and more on my iPhone
We handle change

VW just admitted they are not competitive
Tesla is for they cost cut everywhere that is optional
No stalks, but we get ventilated seats
I like the change

Remember how tablets were projected to replace laptops? I sure do. Never happened. Physical controls matter in some applications.

 

[X Fan]

Have a new X and find buttons to be very easy to use

 

[zoomer0056]

Have a new X and find buttons to be very easy to use

Did you get a yoke or a round wheel? I also have no problems with buttons on my yoke 2022 MSLR.

 

[dsm363]

There is zero evidence the video game controller contributed anything to the failure of the Titan. Rather it's suggested it's the stresses on the carbon fiber hull.

Apparently it was even an outdated 2010 controller they were using.

Submarine tragedy raises questions about cheap game controller, netizens react

While the disappearance of the OceanGate submarine made global headlines, the fate of the affordable gaming controller has become a subject of intense scrutiny. However, it's crucial to note that no conclusive evidence exists linking the controller to the sinking. As the controller sank with the...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Maybe no evidence in that last mission but I thought I read in a prior one they had issues with controller. The used a 14 year old wireless $30 controller. It's really hard to believe that popped into someone's mind as a good idea.

 

[kpanda17]

I did not have this in the new MS as it was a demo drive at an EV event

The MS had rhe latest wheel that seems to be where we are going, slight rectangular standard wheel

Best of both worlds with hand coverage all around, but also having rhe smaller profile better view out front

Change is good