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So, I Broder-ed my car this weekend...

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Same here.

Range is for trips. You were on a trip. Range charging one or twice a month is fine. In the roadster is it actually a procedurally recommended "cleansing" once in a while to train the battery.

The best miles to go display is a combo.

One number to tell you how far you could go if everything was perfect (EPA numbers) and a second number that tell you how far you will go based on how you have been driving for a set amount of previous miles. Watching both is amazingly accurate.
 
In the future, #1 should be much easier. Requires more data and more computing done in the nav system, but is eminently feasible. Either Rolls or Bentley is already using the nav system to cue the right gear selection for upcoming terrain, so we're definitely getting there.

The "projected" range in my Roadster was really close to spot-on accurate during the entire 18 months I owned the car. I guess that's partly because of a good algorithm, partly because the conditions of the next 200 miles match the last 30 most of the time for people's daily driving. So #2 could be projected range as a rough proxy. 2/3 of EPA is just as hypothetical as rated or ideal... more conservative and safer, but still hypothetical.

As for #3, that's basically what people had to live with for most of the 20th century: fully, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, E. :) I'm not sure that people really want to live with such a blunt instrument any more, especially for EV's where they don't fully understand how much 30% charge is and/or they are unwilling to risk being anywhere outside the house when they get near "E". So I'm not sure that #3 will work for the consumer, psychologically.
 
Agreed that #1 is the holy grail.

Projected range in my Roadster is AWFUL when I go over mountain passes, or switch from a backroad to the interstate. As I noted, it depends on conditions. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The "sometimes it doesn't" part makes it unsuitable as far as I am concerned. Not that I mind having it in the car - more tools are better - but it is not a solution to this problem.

Agreed that #2 is a obviously a hypothetical number. But it is a better hypothetical number because it will keep people out of trouble. I agree it's not as good as #1 (that is why it is at #2), but until automakers can get #1 done, it is something EXTREMELY simple they can offer that will keep people from starting out on trips they can't make.

Regarding #3, yes my blog noted that is how gas cars work. People want a better tool, which is why I recommended #1 and #2 as better tools. #3 is only an option if they can't provide those. But even in those cases, it is better than what we have now - an optimistic range meter that causes people to run out of range. An optimistic range meter is worse than having nothing.
 
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Thanks for sharing. It is useful to the rest of us.

1. I wonder why the 12V battery dies so fast? Presumably the 12V system was being charged by the larger (400V?) DC system up until you got low. How small is the 12V battery in a MS that it can't power the electronics for at least a few hours?

The 12v battery is junk. It's not a standard automotive battery. Maybe an upgrade is in the future.
 
2. Did you ever figure out why the CS-90 would only provide you with 40A? Perhaps the EVSE model is capable of 90 but it's still being fed by a 50A circuit?
I did not. I thought maybe it had to do with the car being so depleted but even the next morning I could only get 40A out of it. Interestingly the iPhone app seemed to know the charger could provide more but the car did not - the iPhone app displayed "40/69A" on the charging tab while the car's charging tab said "40/40A".


A standard charge is actually 90% with no lower end reserve (backup) available to the driver.
Really? The standard charge topped out at 383km, I did 383/480 = 0.7979.


I'd be interested to know if your car was running firmware v4.3 because I believe one of the improvements is that the Rated Range algorithm has been improved and takes outside temperature into account.
Sorry, I forgot to include that in my wall of text - the car is running 4.3 (1.25.45). Just this morning I got a notification saying a new version is ready for download, I'll install that & see what's new.


That's a good tip for all of us, but I wonder if it would be better to plug the J1772 adapter in rather than the UMC?
I agree with this, although to be perfectly honest it's very easy to boost the 12V system. The hardest part of the boost was figuring out how to pry the nosecone off without scratching the shiny silver surround piece. If your car's dead on the side of the road you need a tow truck no matter what, and a tow truck will have (should have...? Maybe that's it.) booster cables. If you don't know where the tow truck will take you and you don't know what charger you'll find when you get there I would honestly not plug anything in - you don't have the UMC cable dangling out of your car and you don't have the J1772 adapter getting full of crud on a snowy Canadian evening.


If so, there are two questions: 1. How did Spurkey know that the 12v battery needed to be "jumped"; and 2. Why isn't Tesla publishing this information for owners?
The car started to display a "12V System Low" message about 5 minutes after we'd pulled over. The car unfortunately has a number of mechanisms that automatically turn the computer/display back on even with a dead battery - for example opening the driver door, sitting in the driver's seat & shifting your weight. Manually turning the system off only to have it come on again 4 minutes later drains the 12V system until it dies completely. When the 12V system dies you will hear a 'thunk' from the back of the car, that's the charge port locking pin (different from the charge door holder magnet) mechanism no longer having enough power to hold the pin out of the way and it falls down. Fun Tesla Fact: the pin doesn't actually fall down, the pin sticks up from the bottom of the charge port receptacle. The nice man on the telephone from Tesla Service was indeed aware of this, he just told me about it too late to do anything about it.


If the 12V system is sufficiently dead that the locking pin falls into place, doesn't that also mean the electronics required to begin charging are also down?
Excellent question - I had to boost my car so I don't actually know. Doesn't the J1772 try to communicate with the car to handshake & agree on a charging rate? Maybe it just defaults to 110V/12A if the car doesn't answer back.


As for #3, that's basically what people had to live with for most of the 20th century: fully, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, E. :) I'm not sure that people really want to live with such a blunt instrument any more, especially for EV's where they don't fully understand how much 30% charge is and/or they are unwilling to risk being anywhere outside the house when they get near "E". So I'm not sure that #3 will work for the consumer, psychologically.
I actually disagree - having an explicit representation of exactly how much <blah> is remaining in <blah>'s container is how many things in the world work, not just cars. I do agree however that #3 by itself is almost as useless as the 'Rated Range' number, #3 needs to be augmented with a very good #1.
 
Some day a red deer super charger will make this trip a breeze.

If you accidentally backed into it would that be a Superdeer strike?

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'Denigrate'? He ran his car out of juice. I ran my car out of juice. To 'Broder' a car would be to act in the manner of John Broder, which would be to run your car out of juice. You are welcome to name the act after me if this bothers you such.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice in the title. Brodering (to me) is to willfully fail at a task to prove a predetermined outcome. He ran out of juice to prove the car could not make it. Your mistake may have been unfortunate but it certainly was not purposeful.
 
On the bright side, people run out of gas every single day of the year and ICE's have been around forever, and EVERYONE knows that when the needle hits 'E' that's not a good thing, and yet..... So, you live in a world full of dipshits. The real test is if you learn from your mistake or continue to embrace dipshittiness for the rest of your life. :biggrin:
 
'Denigrate'? He ran his car out of juice. I ran my car out of juice. To 'Broder' a car would be to act in the manner of John Broder, which would be to run your car out of juice. You are welcome to name the act after me if this bothers you such.

I didn't see your title as denigrating Broder either. If anything, you were being too kind to Broder. You ran out of charge innocently and after making some neophyte EV driver mistakes. Broder ran out of charge after doing almost everything possible to do so, with certainly a lot of data showing that his "mistakes" weren't innocent. And he was *supposed* to be a car expert (although we all know now the guy had no prior experience reviewing cars and who knows how he got that job for the NYT).
 
Let's not make this about Broder. I think the title is fine, as it's kinda humorous, and it's actually being generous to Broder in that this incident was clearly entirely accidental.

Kudos to Spurkey for being brave enough to post an embarrassing mistake on the forums.

Just make sure you Range charge next time!