Smart home hubs

[mitch672]

I use MicasaVerde Vera in 1 house, and Homeseer in another house.
both houses use Zwave exclusivley, mainly because I got a tremendous deal on Zwave modules when Radio Shack got out of the home automation business several years ago. I have no such reliability issues with Zwave, one house has over 30 devices, including multiple honeywell zwave thermostats and Schlage zwave locks.

I have to say that Homeseer is more extensable, and has a large number of plugins availble, while Micasaverde does as well.

I plan on integrating my Ademvo Vista alarm panel, and both Vera and Homeseer have plugins for it, for example.

I've also installed a large number of outdoor IR POE cameras, they are on an NVR made by Digimerge/FLIR...

 

[ww73]

I have over 70 devices on the MiCasaVerde VeraLite. About 1/2 are real physical z-wave devices, the other half are virtual devices (i.e. nest thermostat/fire alarms, sonos, USB IR transmitter, virtual garage doors, google calendar plugin, etc. etc.)

For the most part the VeraLite is very stable. Usually when there's a problem, it's the OpenMesh AP range extender that crapped out. I've recently had the OpenMesh firmware upgrade so hopefully it helps.

VeraLite is programmable using the "Lua" language, however I find it easier to generate automation rules using a separate plugin called PLEG. I run all my lighting and security automation through PLEG, no code necessary.

http://RTS-Services.com/Vera/Plugin/PLEG

 

[Anzir]

For all of you who run security through your hubs, do you just self-monitor? My wife would rather have a monitored system for when we are out of town/country. It seems most of those are z-wave, and Frontpoint appears to be one of the higher rated companies. It bothers me that they do not have a garage door controller available and z-wave garage door modules don't appear to be compatible. This is very important to me due to the design of the house and the fact that the garages are detached and 50 feet in front of the house. I need to be able to close the doors from the house if necessary.
It would be redundant having a system like Vera to control the house with a separate security system. The cameras will be a separate IP system as I don't like the idea of having monitored cameras.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

My whole house is setup with z-wave using MiCasaVerde. We love it.. thermostat, lighting, security locks and cameras... approximately 75 z-wave devices are connected to the wireless bridge. we love it!

 

[bollar]

I only have 20 Z-wave devices in my network and I haven't had any problems with reliability. But I will say that we have 150+ Insteon devices and they have also been extremely reliable. Also, unlike other networks, Insteon switches still retain much of their functionality if Indigo is down for some reason.

 

[ww73]

It bothers me that they do not have a garage door controller available and z-wave garage door modules don't appear to be compatible. This is very important to me due to the design of the house and the fact that the garages are detached and 50 feet in front of the house. I need to be able to close the doors from the house if necessary.

The garage door can be automated, it just takes a little bit of work.

Here's a tutorial: 007 Systems Garage Door Installation with Vera Lite, RM10, Intermatic Z wave Appliance Module - YouTube

Here's my G+ post on how to build your own relay:

https://plus.google.com/107318359112924497940/posts/SkLozmZMdGr

If you go this route w/ the Vera, I recommend abstracting the tilt sensor and wall module as a garage door using this plugin.

https://plus.google.com/107318359112924497940/posts/HSzrVS13nf6

In terms of notifications, when the garage doors are opened/closed, our Sonos system will say "XYZ door is opened/closed" inside the house, and Vera will send an alert to our phones, i.e. "All garage doors are closed" when all of them are closed. We're now trained to listen for this message as we leave our driveway. If we don't hear it, either the doors are not closed, or we left the phones inside the house.

Vera Alerts - Vera Plugin for Notifications

Since ur garage is 50' away from the house, you will need to position your Z-Wave hub within range, or have a few devices in between to extend the mesh network.

 

[Anzir]

Thanks for all of your input, everyone. After researching it and weighing the pros and cons, I think I'm going to go with a separate security system and home automation hub. This is mainly because I need monitoring of the security system. Right now I'm leaning towards the Vera hub for automation because of its flexibility and community support. I'll choose the security system down the road.

 

[Danal]

Yes, the issues generally do not appear with only a few nodes. I believe my network at the home I did with Z really started having problems at about 15 nodes. HomeSeer "re-optimizes" the Z-Wave network (if you don't change anything, at about 3 AM) every night. This is the only way that Z survived at all. Even with that, there were anomalies.

As for low power, I've also found the battery powered Z devices to be absolutely horrible. The so called "X10" RF devices and a 3rd party receiver are actually much MUCH more reliable. Note that "X10" RF really doesn't have anything to do with the X10 powerline protocol. It was just some RF stuff marketed by the same company that bought the rights to all things X10 as a label. Anyway, I'm off in the weeds of history... stay away from the X10 stuff.

Z is OK, just not perfect. My other heartburn with it is how you add devices. Your controller must be within 1 meter of the device to be added. This gives you the choice of bringing the device to the controller (so you don't disconnect it from the PC), which has the downside of "enrolling" the new node in the WRONG place in the topology/routing tables. The other choice is to put the new node wherever it will live, and bring the controller to it. This means disconnecting it from the PC...

Insteon either auto-discovers, and/or has a 6 digit hex address that you can key into most software. Easy.


Anyway... I'd do a hub with both, because of the handful of Z only devices. But have Z be my main network? I literally gave thousands of dollars of Z-Wave stuff to friends (with fair warning!) to get it out of my support.

 

[UberEV1]

Thanks for all of your input, everyone. After researching it and weighing the pros and cons, I think I'm going to go with a separate security system and home automation hub. This is mainly because I need monitoring of the security system. Right now I'm leaning towards the Vera hub for automation because of its flexibility and community support. I'll choose the security system down the road.

That's exactly what we did a year and a half ago! Monitored security system that protects you even if power is cut, and a Veralite to control the thermostats, lights, separate set of motion sensors, alerts, etc. I like the hands-off simplicity of the security system and the hands-on customization of the Veralite. Good choice! (Just be aware that programming the Micasaverde controller does require some learning and practice.)

 

[Anzir]

A good article about technology from CES that agrees with points that people have stated in this thread: things are going to get worse before it gets better.

Edit: sorry, you have to have a Houzz account to read. I will cut and paste when I'm on my computer.

Sign Up

 

[Anzir]

Companies that make appliances and electronics for the home will be doing two main things at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas on January 6 to 9: exhibiting their smart-home tech products and explaining to people just what a smart-home tech product is.

That’s because while there’s obvious interest, even demand, for devices that allow people to adjust lighting or unlock a door from a smartphone, the average homeowner isn’t quite sure what to make of it all yet. There are so many different products running different software systems, each with its own smartphone app, that it’s hard to know where to begin in making a home more “connected.”

Searching for Connection

For now the smart-home frontier is more like the Wild West, with many developers creating their own operating systems independent of one another or compatible only with certain brands. It’s somewhat good for innovation but sort of bad for the consumer, because it’s hard to make sense of the overwhelming number of products and which ones have the ability to coordinate with others.

For example, you might own a smart thermostat, a smart light dimmer package and a smart door lock, but all three could have very different systems that don’t necessarily communicate with one another. So, you’re left to toggle between different apps, interfaces and panels to control them all. As a consumer, you have to do some serious research before buying smart-home products if you want them to be compatible in the future. For now it can be like having a separate remote for the DVD player, TV, stereo, ceiling fan and so on. At some point you just say, “Well, how is this smart?”

Missing Links

That’s why a large appliance company like Bosch is sending its CEO of software innovations to CES to take part in a panel discussion titled “The Evolution of the Smart Home,” along with executives from Lutron, Yetu and Lowe’s. These companies are betting big on the future of home automation and plan to discuss whether a connected home is ready for broader consumer adoption. “The evolution is occurring,” says panel speaker Michael Pessina, president of Lutron, which focuses on electronic lighting and shading control. “The key thing is figuring out a way to make it simple.”

Pessina points to platforms such as The Home Depot’s Wink, with which Lutron is compatible, Lowe’s’ Iris and even Staples’ Connect as major drivers for promulgating connected-home technology and making it affordable and available for the masses.

Additionally, several companies plan to make announcements at CES about integrating their products with those from companies like Nest, the thermostat developer that was acquired by Google in the beginning of 2014. And as Apple and Samsung also look to capitalize on the growing connected-home buzz with HomeKit and SmartThings, respectively, things are bound to get patchier before they get smoother.

In November Bosch, ABB and Cisco somewhat acknowledged the ironic disconnect between emerging connected-home appliances and announced plans to develop and operate an open software platform for homes beginning in 2015. “For a home to be ‘smart,’ it is crucial that all the appliances and systems in the home — e.g., washing machines, heating units, lamps and window blinds — can simply and securely exchange data with each other as well as with smartphones and tablets,” Bosch said in a statement announcing the partnership.

Taking It to the Masses

During CES, though, just stroll through the exhibit floor hosting the smart-home category and you’ll get a taste of what the companies are hoping will catch on. Lightbulbs, door locks and doorbells, video cameras, thermostats, solar energy storage and even ceiling fans — all controlled from smartphones or wearable devices. (Bosch created the graphic shown here to show homeowners the possibilities of a connected home and what it means.)

 

[wayner]

I have a Control4 HA system that I use to control lights, HVAC, gas fireplace, blinds and door locks. For the most part I like the system but Control4 is not as DIY as I would like since I still need a dealer to do some things. It also isn't cheap, but apparently it is less than Crestron.

That at is the other thing to consider - how much of the programming, etc do you want to do yourself vs having someone else do it.

 

[Anzir]

I have a Control4 HA system that I use to control lights, HVAC, gas fireplace, blinds and door locks. For the most part I like the system but Control4 is not as DIY as I would like since I still need a dealer to do some things. It also isn't cheap, but apparently it is less than Crestron.

That at is the other thing to consider - how much of the programming, etc do you want to do yourself vs having someone else do it.

Thanks for the info. Would you consider your system very reliable? How much of a delay is there from the time you send a command? Is it easily upgraded?
I don't mind budgeting for it if it is reliable.

 

[wayner]

The system is very reliable. About 99% of the time there is no delay - this is from using the six button switches in my home to turn on/off lights, fireplace etc. When you ask is it easily upgraded, what do you mean by upgraded? Upgrading firmware, adding new devices or something else? Any devices have to be added by your dealer. This is one thing I don't like as I would like the ability to add some devices myself. But in many instances your dealer can log on remotely and add the devices to your system.

The big thing with Control4, or Crestron, or other dealer based systems is to get a good dealer. But this isn't a cheap proposition. The light dimmers run about $100 each plus labour. I would imagine that the average house would probably be about a $20k tag for a Control4 system but it all depends on how much you are doing. In this price I am including all lights in your house, HVAC, security and a couple of AV systems. So even if you weren't doing a "smart" system you would be spending several $k on this sort of stuff. And the same guy that does this stuff may do your other wiring like Ethernet, cable, audio/video distribution, home Theater, etc.

 

[pete8314]

I have a Control4 HA system that I use to control lights, HVAC, gas fireplace, blinds and door locks. For the most part I like the system but Control4 is not as DIY as I would like since I still need a dealer to do some things. It also isn't cheap, but apparently it is less than Crestron.

That at is the other thing to consider - how much of the programming, etc do you want to do yourself vs having someone else do it.

We're using Control4 in my company's innovation center. We're well tapped into the platform and company though, so there's a lot of custom work being done in partnership with C4. We've also tried just about every smarthome gizmo, just to see if it has legs. Like others on here, I've been into HA since the days of X10 and Homeseer 1.0, and I have something of a problem with investing in Kickstarter and Indigogo vaporware :-/ 2015 is definately going to be a big year for home automation/intelligence. I have Smartthings, but since they completed a back-end change late last year, it's hopeless, and although they're responsive, there's no real answers, clearly becuase they're focused on the new hub and accessories coming out in Q2. I had Revolv, which had a lot of potential, but Nest bought them, and killed the hub (or froze it, at least). Then there's Apples HomeKit, which hasn't really done anything yet, but has to soon, to keep up with Google (Nest).

some other HA-type things I'm invested in or using: August, Hue, Canary, WigWag, Nuerio, Blossom, Plum, Goji, Stack and probably others that I can't remember. I'm also building a new house this year, so I'm hoping some clear leaders will emerge, quickly. I'm most excited about Plum and Canary, but my money's going on Nest, they're building some intelligent partnerships.

 

[Anzir]

Thanks for the feedback. In upgrading I meant two things, actually: 1) with so many changes in technology, HA devices would tend to become obsolete within 5-7 years. Would the main hardware be easily upgraded? 2) how easy is it to add devices. You answered the second question spot-on.

It is unfortunate that the dealer is required for any changes so the system, and it worries me that any third party could log on and have control of the HA system. We actually have a glut of Control 4 dealers here in Orlando so I'll ring up a few tomorrow and see what they are like.

Thanks again.

 

[wayner]

In terms of changes in technology - that depends on how you are defining HA. To be honest stuff like light switches, thermostats, door locks, AV control, etc don't really change all that frequently. Sure a Nest is very cool looking but the basic functionality of a programmable thermostat is not very new. The learning aspect is new but that may not be of value to many folks. And anything connected to the C4 system will be accessible on your phone/tablet and other areas so even if the technology is old you can make it seem new by using it with a smartphone. A Philips Hue is very new technology but other than changing the color of the lights (which I find more of a gimmick than of practical use) the basic functionality of a dimmer controlled by a master controller is also relatively old

I have had my system for around seven years and the core hardware has been upgraded from Embernet to Zigbee Pro and the style of the switches has changed but the core functionality of a dimmer switch has not changed. Sure there are a lot of cool new things coming out that you could integrate into the system, (Hue lights, Nest t-stat, Nest smoke detector) but it isn't clear how much of that stuff will totally catch on. There are some advances, like most high end TVs and AVRs can now be controlled by IP rather than IR, but many dealers prefer to continue to use IR as it is easier to set up and maintain. And you need drivers to integrate everything together. Being able to push one switch to: turn on the TV, set the input to HDMI 1, turn on the AVR, set the input to DVD, turn on the BluRay player, lower the projector screen and lower the blinds is very cool but none of it is leading edge technology and could have been done 10 years ago and the exact same hardware would still work today.

What works for you will somewhat depend on you and your family's attitude towards technology - just like with a Tesla. Some people think it is weird that you have to reboot your light switch controller (which happens about once a year). Others think it is worth that small hassle to have the full integration.

 

[bestellen]

I don't have any experience with smart home products, but I am excited to give them a try. The hubs you listed really aren't that expensive. I think it is time for me to leap into the sector. My wife just had a baby, so she could use some luxuries that make her life a little easier. I am going to start by automating the shades and lights.

 

[yobigd20]

I'm building a new big home in about 6 months. I would like to plan this ahead up front. Haven't really given it much thought until now. I'm an experience software engineer so I don't mind complex , hard to configure, or systems that require scripting and programming. In fact, I'd prefer ones with hooks and Apis for me to tinker with adding new custom stuff myself. In particular I sort of specialize in video and audio communication and broadcasting (even as low level as writing own mpeg2 codecs in C and assembly language and integrating third party h264/vp8 and soon vp9 and real time frame accurate splicing/switching/ad insertion/overlays/etc aka I know what I'm doing haha) so I might write my own security monitoring system for fun but some sort of extendable central hub I could hook into for a a place for centralized control with the rest of the home automation would be great.

Don't really even know where to begin. I see positive and negative reviews for many of the systems mentioned in above posts. I'll definitely be wiring drops in every room....cat5e(or 6)/fiber/cable down to a patch panel to a gigabit Cisco switch and router. I tend to hardware everything vs rely on wireless signals. Can't really have many cameras all streaming compressed HD over wireless and expect it to be 100% reliable lol. Plus I do some gaming too so want as low latency and minimal lost packets Oh and streaming HD movies from plex server to tvs around the house etc hence the hardwiring. Anyway that's just the network not the systems.

If anyone's done this type of research before I'd love to get some opinions/suggestions to jump start my planning. Anything you learned - systems that were crap to stay away from - companies with no support - or good extendable systems - sdks or systems with good apis for developers, yadda yadda.

My goal eventually is to make the house as high tech as I can afford. Door locks, outlets, lights, security, the works. Various automation like lights going on when entering. Again due to my background I'd prefer a system that's highly configurable vs one that is user friendly. (Both would be great but lots of times you get one vs the other haha). Control through phones and through web maybe. (I also don't have a problem coding my own sever in the cloud to do these).

Oh lastly one major thing is I want a better electrical system. Smart energy monitoring. Right now I don't have a clue what's eating my electrical bill every month. The A/C is a killer. But it's old and not efficient. Solar with huge battery backup to go off grid I want eventually too. Man I could really go off on a tangent from one thing to another. I need to start simple and build it up over time however anything that would help knowing AHEAD of time before the house is built like prewiring for drops or anything for smart energy monitoring or anything else like that - lessons learned by anyone whose done this before would be very helpful. (obviously I like doing these things myself too, not paying someone else to do it).

 

[wayner]

You are not going to want Control4 then. The only thing I don't really like about this system is that you can't fully control it as an end user - you need a dealer to install any hardware or drivers, including drivers that are purely software related - like sending a Prowl notification. Their programming is done by something called ComposerPro that only dealers are allowed to use. Consumers get a slightly dumbed down version called Composer HE(Home Edition). It does pretty much all of the programming but you can't add devices. It is also a dumbed down programming language that is totally drag and drop, although you could write your own drivers - I believe they use a language called lua.