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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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I believe the Bolt and Porsche E vehicle will increase, not decrease, Tesla sales. Skeptics will look at the Porsche and realize "wow, an EV is their best performing production car, and it can charge fast! But at $140K (or whatever high price it will start at), they can't afford it. They then look at Tesla, which they had never considered before. Similarly, low price buyers will look at the Bolt, but think "this is ugly, and no charging network, but I'm now interested in EVs." They will look at "Tesla" since that is the name everyone associates now with desirable EVs, and buy the Tesla. GM will probably never sell more than 20,000 Bolts/year, while Tesla is selling 500,000 Model 3 cars.
 
Chevy just unveiled their Bolt.

Around $30k after incentives, 200 mile range, 80% charge in 60 minutes.

http://jalopnik.com/2017-chevrolet-bolt-meet-americas-30-000-200-mile-ele-1751426729

Thoughts on reaction tomorrow?

They de-risked saying anything new because they said nothing new and they said nothing daft enough to earn a Twitter take-down from Elon. On balance a non-event IMO. They launched exactly the small overpriced hatch back with no charging network that they were expected to launch and maintained the post Model 3 unveil production schedule that they were expected to maintain. Perhaps confirmation of the low bar for Model 3 to outdo will add 1% to TSLA tomorrow.
 
I believe the Bolt and Porsche E vehicle will increase, not decrease, Tesla sales. Skeptics will look at the Porsche and realize "wow, an EV is their best performing production car, and it can charge fast! But at $140K (or whatever high price it will start at), they can't afford it. They then look at Tesla, which they had never considered before. Similarly, low price buyers will look at the Bolt, but think "this is ugly, and no charging network, but I'm now interested in EVs." They will look at "Tesla" since that is the name everyone associates now with desirable EVs, and buy the Tesla. GM will probably never sell more than 20,000 Bolts/year, while Tesla is selling 500,000 Model 3 cars.

I would whole heartedly disagree. The Mission E will be for those who wants a trackable EV, while the bolt will be for those who wants a long range EV for the lowest price possible and/or the Chevy brand. GM will sell as many Bolts as they can make, and Tesla won't lose any sales either. ICE market share is what will lose.

Pitting the Mission E and Bolt with Tesla's vehicles is making the same mistakes as the bears.
 
Give me one reason people will buy this not buy chevy sonic

Electric drivetrain? The same reason people pay more to buy the Leaf over a Versa. Driving electric may be more important to these people that they overlook the fact a Bolt is based on the Sonic, similar to how driving a luxury badge is more important to thousands of people who buy a Lexus RX considering they can buy the same car (Rav4) at half the price. 200 mile range is generally accepted as the minimum for mass EV adoption combined with a price closer to market average ($32,000). The Bolt checks off both boxes, as will any other EV from any other brand that sells a $30,000, 200 mile EV. One reason people may buy the Bolt is, it will be only car for a year that satisfies two critical requirements (200 mile real world range, sub $30,000 price) for mass EV adoption.

Why are 35,000 Corvettes sold yearly when a Camry can do the job (carry people from point A to Point B) more efficiently at 1/3rd the price? Why are 80,000 Camaros sold yearly when the Civic can carry more people comfortably at half the price with 50% better fuel economy? Why buy a 5 series when the Avalon has more room, $20K cheaper,.....

Besides the Bolt is closer to a Trax (Opel Mokka for you in Germany). EV or not, you better make a CUV style vehicle with taller seating to make it in America. Americans prefer to sit in their car, not fall into it.

Sorry for OT. I understand this discussion belongs somewhere else.
 
versa sold more than 100k a year
leaf only sold 15k a year

the best ICE car with same price sold more than 1 million a year!!!

EV needs to have much better performance than same price ICE to offset range limitation even you have more than 200 epa miles

Bolt's 0-60 is around 7 second same as sonic
 
sonic 17.5k
bolt 37k


shape same
0-60 same
space same
range sonic >> bolt
price bolt > sonic * 2


and sonic mpg city 29 highway 40
lol

TSLA on its way up after hours.

I think everything that has been said here regards the Bolt is correct. The vehicle itself at that price point is of no short term interest to anyone let alone Tesla.

The most interesting thing about the presentation was Barra's acknowledgement that the auto industry would change more in the next five years than the previous fifty. This set in the context of deals with Mobileye and Lyft says to me that at least they understand the issue. Credit where credit is due.

The reason why steam railway barons did not become automakers (and thus kept their passengers) is often referred to by the simple statement that they thought they were in the railway business and did not appreciate that they were in the transportation business. (Naturally having a lot of capital tied up in making rails and steam trains didn't help much either).

What we will have over the coming few years is the reverse of this, the challenge for auto companies to follow their customers back into the world of transport as a service. Barra seems to get it.

The problem remains for GM and the remainder of the large ICE auto players that even having publicly acknowledged the nature of the goal (a very big and commendable step forward), they are in entrenched competition with one another on slim margins and they are entirely dependent for survival on an outdated technology. Now they will face new and aggressive outside competition in addition to competition from each other, commencing with Tesla and ultimately from a number of newcomers (probably Apple and Samsung, Foxconn and other Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean and possibly Japanese and European makers). None of the new competition is encumbered with legacy investments and culture related to engine production and all of them without exception are well ahead of the technology curve that matters whereby the ability to cast, mill and press metal is a commodity and no longer the core value add.

I still do not think GM will survive the transition because I think their margins will get swamped by newcomers no matter what they do, but I wanted to say something nice about the GM CEO anyway.
 
Electric drivetrain? The same reason people pay more to buy the Leaf over a Versa. Driving electric may be more important to these people that they overlook the fact a Bolt is based on the Sonic, similar to how driving a luxury badge is more important to thousands of people who buy a Lexus RX considering they can buy the same car (Rav4) at half the price. 200 mile range is generally accepted as the minimum for mass EV adoption combined with a price closer to market average ($32,000). The Bolt checks off both boxes, as will any other EV from any other brand that sells a $30,000, 200 mile EV. One reason people may buy the Bolt is, it will be only car for a year that satisfies two critical requirements (200 mile real world range, sub $30,000 price) for mass EV adoption.

Why are 35,000 Corvettes sold yearly when a Camry can do the job (carry people from point A to Point B) more efficiently at 1/3rd the price? Why are 80,000 Camaros sold yearly when the Civic can carry more people comfortably at half the price with 50% better fuel economy? Why buy a 5 series when the Avalon has more room, $20K cheaper,.....

Besides the Bolt is closer to a Trax (Opel Mokka for you in Germany). EV or not, you better make a CUV style vehicle with taller seating to make it in America. Americans prefer to sit in their car, not fall into it.

Sorry for OT. I understand this discussion belongs somewhere else.

Bolt isn't sub 30 price; it starts at 30 post-incentives.

I get the point on Lexus RX vs. Rav4, but the Lexus is clearly has more luxury and I'm assuming better performance, etc. The premium might be outsized but they are paying more for a better car.

The Corvette/Camry and Camaro/Civic point doesn't make sense, IMO. You are comparing cars that are in entirely different classes and with different purposes. The point many are making here is that the only real point of differentiation between a Fit and a Bolt is that one is electric (with no fast charging network...). The cars look and perform the same. Yet one is much more expensive. Sales will be lackluster, unfortunately.
 
Despite the stock action, kind of a good week really.

1) car fire, shrugged off. At worst it was a real defect in the car, and at the end of the day cars sometimes fail in this way. Tesla's fail at a lower rate that ICE's. The market may actually be over caring about these (I consider the monday drop macro related).
2) FF unveil: sketchy vaporware, and bad sketchy vaporware at that. Didn't even do a good job of hyping their hype.
3) Bolt unveil: as expected, a meh me-too at best. Worse looks (we presume), performance and no charger network.

De risking all around.
 
Many of you are writing off the Bolt so soon. I disagree. Bolt will be successful. GM is setting a lower expectations on purpose after they burnt their fingers on the Volt.

Having said that Model 3 will not make dent on Bolt sales, and vice-versa. EVs will dent ICE sales, but at this stage of the game they won't cannibalize each other.
 
Folks,
Do not forget the power of HOV sticker and EV incentives! Anyone who has been in LA weekday traffic knows how valuable a sticker can be.
Most here lease a Leaf or other cheap EVs to do just that: beat the traffic. A 200 mile similar EV is better than a 100 mile EV, and many will bite.

I doubt this will affect M3 sales, due to different target customers and potentially different launch dates. I'm more concerned about low gas prices as a bearish enemy for general EV growth. The US annual EV sales growth from 2014 to 2015 doesn't look good. Even with 5-6 new models, the total EV/PHEV sales declined yoy. Take a look at insideevs.com monthly sales charst for the last 2 years, when that site is up again.
 
Many of you are writing off the Bolt so soon. I disagree. Bolt will be successful. GM is setting a lower expectations on purpose after they burnt their fingers on the Volt.

Having said that Model 3 will not make dent on Bolt sales, and vice-versa. EVs will dent ICE sales, but at this stage of the game they won't cannibalize each other.

I'd like to hear what makes it a compelling car. It has 150 hp, 0-60 in 7 seconds (this should be the calling card for EVs), limited storage/utility, basic materials, nothing new tech-wise and very limited ability to travel thanks to no fast-charging network. It also looks exactly like much cheaper cars that perform in basically the exact same way. So it is a $37,500 car that looks like, performs and has the same utility (leaving aside the lack of ability to travel, which gives it far less utility) as a $17,000 car. The one difference - it's electric (boogie-woogie).

Please tell me why anyone other than someone who desperately wants an electric car (to the point where they'd pay double), can't afford a Model S and is unwilling to wait for the Model 3 would buy this?
 
Many of you are writing off the Bolt so soon. I disagree. Bolt will be successful. GM is setting a lower expectations on purpose after they burnt their fingers on the Volt.

Having said that Model 3 will not make dent on Bolt sales, and vice-versa.

I predict that Bolt will not sell more than 28k units in 2019.

Meaning demand is below 2017 capacity.

Whereas demand will exceed capacity for Model 3 into 2025.
 
It is impossible to predict what car competes with what other car, two years before either car hits the market. Car buying is mostly an emotional decision, more so than an economical or sensible one. Nothing is guaranteed based on product alone. When the Chevy Cruze was launched in 2010, it was miles ahead of the competition. Better economy, 6spd auto compared to 4spd auto in the Corolla/Civic and vastly superior fit and finish but that didn't affect how many Corolla/Civics were being sold. I have followed the midsize truck segment for several years as someone who owns one. Even though I own a Colorado, I will admit that the Nissan Frontier looks better, is several thousand cheaper, and is a much better value. Despite this the Chevy trucks handily outsell Nissan trucks.

The Bolt and Model 3 will not compete because the consumers buying them will not be the same. An Impala and BMW3 are in the same price range, neither is a bad car and they both do well sales wise. One group wants a soft riding full size sedan with a powerful motor while the other wants a nimble canyon carving RWD sports sedan. I wouldn't berate an Impala buyer for not buying a superb handling BMW, because what is important to me would not be what is important to someone else. Buying a $70,000 electric car may be one person's idea of going green while buying a $35,000 EV and spending $35,000 on solar panels for their house may be another person's idea of going green. They are both commendable and neither should be mocked for their choice.

The Bolt will be a compliance car but that doesn't mean it will be a bad one. The Volt and Spark EV are compliance cars too, both good cars (not great like the Model S) with very satisfied owners. Volt owners hate their car for four reasons, The low AER range, ICE backup, lack of DC fast charging capability and a 5th seat. The Bolt will address all four issues. It will not be a competition to the Model 3 and won't be as great, but it still has it's place. The Nissan leaf( and its Renault sibling) is by far the most popular EV globally. The Bolt will cost about the same, have twice the range with a liquid cooled battery. Since looks are subjective I will not comment on it.

The Bolt is a business decision. Two of the biggest auto markets(US and China) are rapidly embracing EVs, either due to policy reasons or changing consumer preferences. GM is the largest in one and the second largest in the other. 99% of their profit come from these two countries. GM will be dead in months without a competent EV if these two markets take to EVs in huge numbers. Everyone is wrong in assuming that GM and it's dealers are worried the Bolt will steal sales from ICE models. A Tahoe or Silverado buyer is not going to buy the Bolt. Bolt sales will either come from other non profitable cars or the competition. CAFE and CARB are two other reasons for GM and it's dealers to get very excited about selling EVs. You want to sell that Suburban with a $20K markup? Better move a few Bolts. One Bolt sold = 4 ZEV credits = $20,000 not paid in fines or $20,000 not paid to a competitor to buy credits.

Thanks for your commentary. Personally, I don't like to compare Tesla vehicles to other specific models. If we learned anything from Model S buyers, they come from all over the market place. I was a Camry driver who switched to a Model S and all the comparisons with BMW or Mercedes products meant very little to me. So I think the Model 3 will draw demand from every corner as well.

I am curious about your view that GM is nearly dead in the US and China without a competent EV. I'd like to understand what this is based on.
 
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