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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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On the topic of this merger gets around the dealership restrictions: Why does anyone think that? If selling something other than cars was all it took, Tesla could just claim to be a clothing and accessories boutique that also sold cars. Not sure how adding solar suddenly fixes things.

On the appearance of a bailout: I think Johan has it right. It probably is a bailout and if they didn't intervene the company would lose actual value in the marketplace. This way, for a relatively small valuation they can pick it up and get the TE distribution network they need. It isn't much of a stretch to imagine a failing SCTY would stink up the other businesses in Musk inc. If SCTY can have material problems and financial concerns, why not the others? Best to avoid that, even if it means paying a premium.

On Elon's tiredness and opaque answers: I really think Elon is pushing too hard into "just trust me" territory. He is starting to believe his own legend, that he can do no wrong. (the list of mistakes made at the shareholders meeting was a self indulgent victory lap, not a mea culpa). When he says its a "no-brainer" all I hear is "don't worry your pretty little head about it, I have it all worked out". This was the issue I had with pivoting away from financial results in favor of M3 acceleration. That was the first foray into "just trust me". This is a second, much larger addition of faith he is asking for. He will probably get it but the more shareholders he alienates, the lower the share price goes and the lower faith he will engender. Eventually even Elon will need to care about this.

On Elon not caring about the share price: Earlier in the year, the more jubilent versions of "DTU" theory(that I promulgated with others) had that Elon had our back and was gaming for a share price rise to fuel goodies later in the year. He has taken the bewildering approach of grabbing the goodies at the expense of share price instead. Its fine and appropriate for a CEO to not attempt to manage share price, but he will find all his plans will unravel in a material way if the share price unravels.

On TFTF running Bull lines at us: Hilarious. My hat is off. I had pushed for a "bear cave" thread earlier in the year and we got it! Thundering herds of "Merger-Bears" trample the once peaceful Short Term Thread meadows. Also, hats off to the regulars who are showing that we were never in Kool-aid drinking lockstep.

On Elonism: Investing in TSLA is a combination of due diligence using available data and filling the gaps with faith in a top notch CEO. No amount of research will get you all the way certain, we just don't have the data. But I always felt that TSLA was like 80% certainty 20% faith. I was comfortable with that. Falcon wing doors well, 76/24. Announce plans to accelerate the M3 and THEN do a cap raise... ok... 65/35. Buy SCTY, an opaque strange solar service provider. 30/70? Everyone has a fact/faith ratio they can live with and by driving the ratio down the stock price sinks as less religious investors bail.

On whether the deal passes: If it failed, Elon would be pissed and sulk and blame absolutely everything that went wrong thereafter on it. So we take the bad deal or get a pissy distracted Elon.

On "Q2 deliveries must be a beat because only with that knowlege would Elon do this": I don't buy it. See above about Elon not caring about stock price. He is really just trying to grab his pieces on the chessboard and damn the cost. Since he is truly convinced that the stock valuation of his company(ies) will be much higher later he doesn't think it matters the impact of his actions now. Also, it is possible that he thought the merger would cause a rise in both tickers.

On price action: We are crazy lucky to only be down 11%. I predict this will take 3-5 days to play out. After the suspension failure crap came out I cautioned it would not settle in a day and indeed it was 4 days of down. This will probably be 3-of-5 down days as well. I would normally think of a few down weeks, but sidelined longs and shorts will start to fear being out next week and missing potential Q2 announcement. If, as some have argued, the Q2 deliveries are a beat, this could be exactly what the doctor ordered. A delivery beat, an upbeat GF party (I don't expect anything but a pep rally for that), could do wonders to change the narrative. Q2 good financials might get us back to the 240's or something. A Q2 miss on the other hand.... That would cause an unprecedented run for the exits. TM has gone far too long now without doing-what-you-say, and way too much promising-the-world. Elon cannot ask us to trust him and miss achievable near term goals. Patience is running low and Fear of biting too much too high.

This is the first change to TM in many years that really causes one to stop and think about if the company is going in the right direction. Others pointed it out, but this is not in the master plan. And while you can say it is to save the Earth, just partnering would have done the same thing.

I am lucky I was mostly out of calls and into vanilla shares. I bailed on those in the AH last night for ~196, not a great price. This could be a mini February "V" dip and recovery in which case it is a good way to leverage up and make money on good Q2 results in July-Aug. Or, Brexit, merger concerns and lackluster Q2 could send this thing into the toilet in a serious way. Sitting and stewing for a few days.

I agree with a lot of this. But if q2 deliveries are poor/average, won't that influence the yet to be held merger vote?
 
The idea of combining solar power with automaking is a bit like Ford Motors buying ExxonMobil—if both were losing hundreds of millions a year.

Elon Musk’s Bonkers Plan to Join Tesla and SolarCity

You know, of course, DuPont was forced by the Eisenhower administration to sell off its controlling ownership of GM.

Further, there is a lot of speculating about the meaning of Tesla's offer to buy SCTY. Some are probably right on as there is a lot of talent on this thread. Some is just speculating about the reason for speculating. Why they had to act now is possibly explained by Elon's large holding and need to announce to regulators his intentions. He has said it probably should have taken place earlier, presumably at a lower price for SCTY. I haven't followed Curt's SCTY thread closely, but even here noted the company may show a profit this year presumably because management is moving to more commercial installations which should be more profitable and less needy of loans facilitated by SCTY.

Elon's instinct for a deal is better than mine. My speculation: he believes SCTY will be profitable soon; before this the stock was slowly going up. Now it is accelerating because of the buy announcement. Further, Tesla's near term future price will go up covering any immediate shock now.

Last caveat: I join others in distaste about family concerns here. Quoting analysts who have little respect for anything outside the bounds of secure dividend yielding stocks does not hack the visionary's hope for a better future with concrete action. Bezos has better bets to make than bribing shareholders with dividends. We hold both Tesla and Solar City long. What I look forward to is more TSLA added automatically to our portfolio with the good parts of SCTY nestled safely inside.
 
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Thanks for your insights into SCTY debt! One more question, unless SCTY has unlimited financial resources (like federal reserve), how can it sustain its 'install now, pay later' business model?
I already gave you the counterargument:
-- SolarCity is trying to finance the installs (20-year income streams) with 3-month bonds. These have to be refinanced every three months.
-- in a financial crisis where people lose their homes like 2008, default rates will go up, and lenders will be skittish about refinancing. Lenders could be skittish about refinancing for any number of other reasons.
-- Accordingly, a financial crisis could cause SolarCity to be unable to refinance its debt. At which point they go bust due to a liquidity crisis, future income stream or no future income stream.
-- Alternatively, lenders could agree to refinance SolarCity but demand much higher interest rates (either because interest rates go up in general, or because they fear default risk). So SolarCity could find themselves borrowing at 12% interest rates -- and as a result, losing money. On existing installs.

It's basically a bank run scenario, because *SolarCity is a shadow bank* right now. A bank without access to the FDIC or the Federal Reserve, so a bank with a high risk of bank runs.

As I said in another thread, if SolarCity had 20-year non-callable bonds, or equity, financing all its solar installs, they'd be secure. They don't.

5-6yr asset backed notes
SolarCity Completes Industry's First Securitization of Distributed Solar Loans (NASDAQ:SCTY)
 
Thanks for your insights into SCTY debt! One more question, unless SCTY has unlimited financial resources (like federal reserve), how can it sustain its 'install now, pay later' business model?
This is all consumer driven. The reason this model happened was because consumers can't plop down 10-15k on a solar system, but they can pay .15/kWh of cheaper electricity over a course of a month within their monthly budget. that's what has caused the market to open up as aggressively as it has over the last 6 or so years.

Like I said before, Solarcity has received 99% of all payments due since 2006 and has an average fico score of 740, so these are extremely high quality payments. I ask you to direct me to a comparable industry such as mortgage or auto business which also securities payments, with the same quality payments and I will be utterly shocked and amazed.

Every dollar Solarcity receives goes into installing revenue generating assets of nearly I compared quality. So to assess the debt as anything other then rock solid is not fully informed in my opinion.

The Bottomline for any consumer of electricity is cost/kWh and this is exactly what Solarcity focuses on and it's all in the financials. If Solarcity's business model enables them to continue to drop the cost/kWh a consumer pays compared to the competition, then it is a highly attractive business model.

I think regardless of how they achieve this lower cost for consumers, we investors in tsla (and scty) need to do our due diligence on how if they are achieving this cost reduction as the true measure of the business model and value as a company (of itself and/or under the Tesla brand).
 
Isn't that nice? 5-year notes for 20-year income streams? Same problem, later year. Like I said already, if they were selling 20-year notes, they would be in the clear.

Unless SolarCity will completely pay off installation costs in the first 5 years of the income stream, they have a continuous refinancing problem. They've locked in the homeowner's interest rate for 20 years, but their bond interest rate is not locked in and could rise catastrophically -- or they could simply be unable to find financing.

These are the risks a *bank* has. A bank takes short-term deposits and hands out 30-year mortgages. (And if they've handed out a huge number of mortgages at 4%, and then deposit rates rise to 5% or depositors withdraw all their money, they have *serious problems*.) To evaluate SCTY, you have to look at the financial metrics you look at for banks. Since the financial statements are not presented like a bank's financial statement, I've found that extremely difficult. And I don't like investing in banks most of the time anyway.
 
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I agree with a lot of this. But if q2 deliveries are poor/average, won't that influence the yet to be held merger vote?

Good point... That does lend credence to the "Q2 must be in the bag" theory. Or, Elon is just not caring. Remember a small delivery miss is immaterial in the big picture (true) but a disaster for stock speculators. We might be salty but the big boys may not care as much.
 
If this gets voted down, what will be the consequences?

According to someone else's analysis, that actually might be the plan. It bump
If deal doesn't happen SCTY price floor is 0.

This desperate deal with a desperate timing gave a clear signal to the market of SC's dire financial state.

If deal falls apart, I fully expect SCTY to immediately drop to single digit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean Tesla will then pick them up for pennies? And if so, could that have been the deal all along?
 
On whether the deal passes: If it failed, Elon would be pissed and sulk and blame absolutely everything that went wrong thereafter on it. So we take the bad deal or get a pissy distracted Elon.

It also could be more likely that Elon calls up his buddy Larry Page to do a deal or maybe Apple and just sells Tesla in retaliation. At that point he would have the liquidity to keep solarcity alive himself if he wanted.
 
charlie munger on musk,"he is a certified genius, I've always been afraid of the guy whose IQ is 190 and he thinks its 250."

Investing with Musk has a risk premium attached, he does too many wild things.
The complex model x that was totally not necessary, and now this merger brainless mess.

Yeah, the For-Sure criticism you can hang on Musk is that he is too optimistic. Usually we laugh that off and say it just means that he thinks things take less time than they do, but it doesn't have a big impact in the end. Here he is sure SCTY will be great some day... ok, is that true or just misplaced optimism. As a non-SCTY expert I wish I knew.
 
Yeah, the For-Sure criticism you can hang on Musk is that he is too optimistic. Usually we laugh that off and say it just means that he thinks things take less time than they do, but it doesn't have a big impact in the end. Here he is sure SCTY will be great some day... ok, is that true or just misplaced optimism. As a non-SCTY expert I wish I knew.

My opinion is just my opinion, not investment advice.... I absolutely think Silevo and Zep will be great some day, and I think that's what Elon is thinking. But I'm very sour on SCTY's shadow banking business, and I'm frankly not sure Elon understands it or knows what he's getting into with it.

He barely mentioned it during the conference call, which could be a bad sign (he's not paying attention to it) or a good sign (he wants to get out of that business and so "looking forward" it's not important). At the moment I don't know which.

So I am very ambivalent (of two minds)!
 
Seriously. All of you people are loco. I haven't seen people posting this frequently about something they clearly don't understand in over a year. So many on here who clearly don't understand SolarCity or the type of arrangement Tesla is proposing. Chanos is wrong and clearly doesn't understand SolarCity's business model. Apparently most of the people on here are rehashing the same nonsense being reported by people who also don't understand SolarCity's business model.

The majority of SolarCity's sharers are owned by around 5 parties. All of these parties are long and have no intention of selling. What do you people not understand about this?

Those 5 people's business model is going down, thus the need to be acquired by Tesla where capital raises are no problem.
 
My speculation: he believes SCTY will be profitable soon; before this the stock was slowly going up. Now it is accelerating because of the buy announcement. Further, Tesla's near term future price will go up covering any immediate shock now.

Why would institutional owners and board members sell at $26-28 if SCTY is about to be profitable? Does Musk know something that they do not?

I think it is more likely that Musk has chosen the least bad solution. Better to take the criticism for the purchase rather than face the public demise of the company.
 
Truly amazing! How does Chanos get away with saying BS like this?
1) Chanos clearly doesn't understand Solar City or Tesla's business model.
2) Chanos is wrong. Elon didn't sell any shares a few weeks ago. Elon exercised options that were due to expire, and only sold the amount that would be needed to cover taxes on the sale.
3) Solar City's bond yields do not signal a company in distress. It signals a market that is bunching in Solar City with every other company that has anything to do with Solar power, and doesn't understand Solar City.
4) Solar City's brand, customers, assets and cash flow are what matter.
5) Battery storage is a game changer. Solar + Storage will make net metering somewhat irrelevant, at least for Solar City. In 5 years, almost every Tesla owner will own a Powerwal, and a lot of Tesla owners will own Solar systems through Solar City.
 
Why would institutional owners and board members sell at $26-28 if SCTY is about to be profitable? Does Musk know something that they do not?

I think it is more likely that Musk has chosen the least bad solution. Better to take the criticism for the purchase rather than face the public demise of the company.
As far as I can tell, a lot of us SCTY shareholders understand the end game of solar and what customers are attracting to right now, it's the market that doesn't get it.
 
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