Russia/Ukraine conflict

[Buckminster]

Ukraine war: US releases last military aid for Kyiv for now
$250m - last funding for a while. This is why there are rumours of starting mediation. If I thought hard I could probably come up some worse ways to have played this.

 

[adiggs]

Ukraine war: US releases last military aid for Kyiv for now
$250m - last funding for a while. This is why there are rumours of starting mediation. If I thought hard I could probably come up some worse ways to have played this.

There is at least 1 benefit that will come from this. Some people that think they have a say in whether Ukraine wants to (and will continue to) fight or not will learn that, in fact, they don't have a say in whether Ukraine wants to (and will continue) to fight.

Our only question is how much do we want to help on the supply side.

 

[Buckminster]

There is at least 1 benefit that will come from this. Some people that think they have a say in whether Ukraine wants to (and will continue to) fight or not will learn that, in fact, they don't have a say in whether Ukraine wants to (and will continue) to fight.

Our only question is how much do we want to help on the supply side.

Are you saying Biden wants peace (now that he can't offer enough to continue) but won't be able to get Zelensky to the table?

 

[adiggs]

Are you saying Biden wants peace (now that he can't offer enough to continue) but won't be able to get Zelensky to the table?

No.

I'm saying is that the only one to bring Zelensky / Ukraine to a negotiation for peace is Zelensky / Ukraine. It's not something for Biden/USA to do, or for Europe, or any individual country.


The various peoples and countries in the world that think that we have a role in "bringing" Ukraine anywhere might notice that isn't our role. It might be that Ukraine would stop fighting without the outside support. I don't believe that for a second, but it might be the case. Either way it is Ukraine's fight for existence and freedom. Our only role is deciding if we want to help in the way that Ukraine asks for us to help.

Seems like there are plenty of people and countries outside of Ukraine that don't understand that.

 

[Buckminster]

No.

I'm saying is that the only one to bring Zelensky / Ukraine to a negotiation for peace is Zelensky / Ukraine. It's not something for Biden/USA to do, or for Europe, or any individual country.


The various peoples and countries in the world that think that we have a role in "bringing" Ukraine anywhere might notice that isn't our role. It might be that Ukraine would stop fighting without the outside support. I don't believe that for a second, but it might be the case. Either way it is Ukraine's fight for existence and freedom. Our only role is deciding if we want to help in the way that Ukraine asks for us to help.

Seems like there are plenty of people and countries outside of Ukraine that don't understand that.

I don’t see what you said as being contentious. Surely the point is that Zelensky is not stupid and will try to do the best for the country. If he thinks he can’t win because funding isn’t coming then he can be persuaded to negotiate. If he thinks EU and UK money will be sufficient to hold ground then he could ignore negotiations.

He was previously ready to negotiate until Boris convinced him otherwise.

Whether Putin would negotiate is another variable.

 

[spacerfc]

The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine

For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.

www.politico.com

With U.S. and European aid to Ukraine now in serious jeopardy, the Biden administration and European officials are quietly shifting their focus from supporting Ukraine’s goal of total victory over Russia to improving its position in an eventual negotiation to end the war, according to a Biden administration official and a European diplomat based in Washington. Such a negotiation would likely mean giving up parts of Ukraine to Russia.

Some people still refuse to admit Elon Musk predicted this exact outcome more than a year ago.

 

[Tiger]

A good earfull from a Babushka:

This is what would avalanche/tsunami towards the west if Ukraine was to give up its land as a result of negotiations.

 

[jerry33]

The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine

For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.

www.politico.com

Some people still refuse to admit Elon Musk predicted this exact outcome more than a year ago.

And then in three or four years, Russia has built up its military and invades again.

 

[Buckminster]

And then in three or four years, Russia has built up its military and invades again.

Part of the negotiation would include Ukraine and others going into NATO. Give up certain land and NATO won't expand. Over time the west should be able to put much more pressure on Russia through China. I see no reason why Russia would want to be humiliated again. This war has not exactly been a success for him either. It could be a ten year project to get back to a position where Russia can defend itself let alone attack.

 

[lolachampcar]

The Biden Administration Is Quietly Shifting Its Strategy in Ukraine

For two years, Biden and Zelenskyy have been focused on driving Russia from Ukraine. Now Washington is discussing a move to a more defensive posture.

www.politico.com

Some people still refuse to admit Elon Musk predicted this exact outcome more than a year ago.

Yeh, and I predicted Ukraine was screwed as soon as one of our presidents tried to extort them....... That does not make Elon or I clairvoyant. Fix the wrongs in this world and Elon and I would not be correct.

 

[Just a Reader]

Is from a UK tabloid. You might as well quote FAux news

The Daily Telegraph is an old and traditional UK quality paper. It may not have the same quality as it did in the past, but is by no means a tabloid. It is also staunchly anti-Russian. You've just shown your ignorance of the UK newspaper market.

 

[Crutonius]

A peace treaty implies there's an expectation for the aggressor to agree to the arrangement.

Surrender is the word Elon's looking for.

Elon also predicted that WW3 would happen if Ukraine ever targeted Crimea.

I think it's safe to say that Elon is better at making electric cars than war predictions.

 

[Just a Reader]

Bild: Russia may attempt to attack Europe next winter, European intelligence source says

Well, Bild is definitely a tabloid. Given that Russia is bogged down in Ukraine, I wonder how Putin wants to attack Europe. Where are the necessary troops and the materiel going to come from?

 

[wdolson]

Part of the negotiation would include Ukraine and others going into NATO. Give up certain land and NATO won't expand. Over time the west should be able to put much more pressure on Russia through China. I see no reason why Russia would want to be humiliated again. This war has not exactly been a success for him either. It could be a ten year project to get back to a position where Russia can defend itself let alone attack.

And if Russia makes Ukraine joining NATO a non-negotiable "no"? Which is almost certain. Russia wants the ability to continue this war someday and NATO membership denies that. Additionally Russian leadership is paranoid and does not want any more NATO members on their doorstep. It's already a disaster that Finland is now a NATO member and the enclave of Kaliningrad is surrounded by NATO has not sat well with the Russians the last few decades.

 

[SageBrush]

the enclave of Kaliningrad is surrounded by NATO has not sat well with the Russians the last few decades.

It does not sit that well with me either.
Kick the Russians out

 

[SO16]

Depending how the US election goes, it could be a win for Russia.

Trump wants to get out of NATO.

 

[Crutonius]

That threat won't have quite the same teeth this time.

Congress approves bill barring any president from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO

Congress has approved legislation that would prevent any president from withdrawing the United States from NATO without approval from the Senate or an Act of Congress. The measure, spearheade…

thehill.com

 

[UncaNed]

@13:00 -"highest achievement of the Russian Terret Space Program"-

 

[indysurfer]

Shocked that Biden is not willing to work with Republicans to secure the border to release more aid to Ukraine. Most Republicans in Congress support Ukraine and don’t want to leave NATO. We even have Democrat mayors of our major cities like Chicago and New York demanding Federal help with our unprecedented levels of illegal immigration has gotten so bad.

We need some bi-partisanship and helping Ukraine and working to fix our out of control border would be a win-win for the majority of moderates in the US and be a much needed victory for Biden. Is Biden really this captured by extremists in his party to let Ukraine aid dry up like this and keep our border in total chaos?

 

[DrGriz]

Shocked that Biden is not willing to work with Republicans to secure the border to release more aid to Ukraine. Most Republicans in Congress support Ukraine and don’t want to leave NATO. We even have Democrat mayors of our major cities like Chicago and New York demanding Federal help with our unprecedented levels of illegal immigration has gotten so bad.

We need some bi-partisanship and helping Ukraine and working to fix our out of control border would be a win-win for the majority of moderates in the US and be a much needed victory for Biden. Is Biden really this captured by extremists in his party to let Ukraine aid dry up like this and keep our border in total chaos?

Check this out:

Biden mulls border crackdown in face of Trump’s migrant-bashing rhetoric

President faces pressure from Republican critics and Democratic allies as he struggles to address what both sides agree is a crisis

www.theguardian.com

the president appears willing to gamble that a deal with Republicans on border security will do more politically to help than hurt