Russia/Ukraine conflict

[SmokyPeat]

Pretty amazing video of a Ukrainian soldier shooting down a Russian cruise missile with a MANPAD:

 

[navguy12]

Russia terror bombing children's playgrounds and other civilian targets as revenge for the bridge. Imo this is why Ukraine is winning. While Russia is wasting tons of missiles trying to kill civilians, Ukraine focuses on Russian military infrastructure, weapons supply, bridges, headquarters etc. But lots of lives will be lost. Russia will have to pay for this and it will take a long time before they are forgiven.

Somewhat reminiscent of when Hitler changed his intended targets in the UK from strictly military targets to include civilian targets.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I'd be equally happy to see the land bridge cut off as the rail & road bridges. Even happier, really, because that would liberate more Ukrainian towns and their inhabitants from the brutal Russian occupation.

Yeah, sorry to break this to you, but any of those inhabitants who aren't ethnic Russians or collaborators have long since been shipped off to internment (labor) camps in Russia, or simply murdered in the alleys behind their own homes.

Once Ukraine does liberate all of its territory, there will have to be some reckoning with Russia for the return of Ukrainian citizens. They are little more than prisoners of war right now.

Putin can not be a part of this process. Their is no path forward that includes Putin, or any other war criminals who are later identified by The Hague. This will be long, and expensive. We're just in the 'bloody' part right now.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Somewhat reminiscent of when Hitler changed his intended targets in the UK from strictly military targets to include civilian targets.

Exactly. When Göring switched from bombing RAF airfields to central London, the NAZI's already lost the Battle of Britain.

So now let's get some decent point AD assets to defend Kyiv and the other critical civilian infrastructure. Unless it looks too risky from Berlin, then just let them burn. /s

 

[SmokyPeat]

Yeah, sorry to break this to you, but any of those inhabitants who aren't ethnic Russians or collaborators have long since been shipped off to internment (labor) camps in Russia, or simply murdered in the alleys behind their own homes.

Once Ukraine does liberate all of its territory, there will have to be some reconning with Russia for the return of Ukrainian citizens. They are little more than prisoners of war right now.

Putin can not be a part of this process. Their is no path forward that includes Putin, or any other war criminals who are later identified by The Hague. This will be long, and expensive. We're just in the 'bloody' part right now.

I guarantee that there are thousands of Ukrainians, ethnic Russian and otherwise, currently surviving in the land bridge between Mariupol and Kherson who will be nothing less than elated when their Russian oppressors are evicted.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I guarantee that there are thousands of Ukrainians, ethnic Russian and otherwise, currently surviving in the land bridge between Mariupol and Kherson who will be nothing less than elated when their Russian oppressors are evicted.

True, and winter is coming. Let's Go!

 

[iPlug]

Won’t keep every Russian missile
from getting through, but a needed robust increase in defensive capabilities that will also further reduce Russian ability to fly manned aircraft, especially near dense civilian areas and critical infrastructure.

U.S. President Joe Biden pledged to Ukraine President Volodomyr Zelenskiy on Monday that the United States will provide Ukraine with advanced air systems…​

Biden vows air defense systems for Ukraine after missile attack

 

[kabin]

Won’t keep every Russian missile
from getting through, but a needed robust increase in defensive capabilities that will also further reduce Russian ability to fly manned aircraft, especially near dense civilian areas and critical infrastructure.

U.S. President Joe Biden pledged to Ukraine President Volodomyr Zelenskiy on Monday that the United States will provide Ukraine with advanced air systems…​

Biden vows air defense systems for Ukraine after missile attack

It's almost a crime it didn't happen a lot sooner.

 

[iPlug]

Agree that all countries need to do more. Some more than others.

If we are grading on a curve, the U.S. passes comfortably but should aim higher. Some European countries are still barely passing (some say not passing). As for China and India who could, instead of their posturing to date, be positively impactful…

 

[BitJam]

If we are grading on a curve, the U.S. passes comfortably but should aim higher. Some European countries are still barely passing (some say not passing).

I learned a lot from this (4 month old) video by Perun:

Ukraine's vital ally - Why Poland matters in the Russian-Ukrainian war​

It's easy to think of the invasion of Ukraine through the lens of cold-war American-Russian competition, with Washington having been one of the first to announce substantial weapon shipments and financial support for Ukraine from February onward.

But support for Ukraine has been a pan-European affair, with some nations going to extraordinary lengths when contrasted with their limited resources. The Baltic and many Eastern European nations stand out in this regard for the willingness they've shown to dig deep into their military reserves in order to get hardware into Ukrainian hands.

In terms of volumes for key heavy equipment like tanks and mobile rocket and artillery systems, Poland stands out as a critical source. Warsaw has emerged as one of Ukraine's staunchest advocates, shipping tanks by the hundred, and allowing its territory to be converted into a logistical hub while opening its doors to Ukrainians by the millions.

In this video I try to give historical context to Poland's decision to throw its resources behind Ukraine and put focus on what this nation, with an economy nominally the size of New Jersey's (ppp-aside), has done to keep the Ukrainian army fighting while preserving the lives and wellbeing of millions of Ukrainian civilians.

 

[iPlug]

I learned a lot from this (4 month old) video by Perun:

Ukraine's vital ally - Why Poland matters in the Russian-Ukrainian war​

It's easy to think of the invasion of Ukraine through the lens of cold-war American-Russian competition, with Washington having been one of the first to announce substantial weapon shipments and financial support for Ukraine from February onward.

But support for Ukraine has been a pan-European affair, with some nations going to extraordinary lengths when contrasted with their limited resources. The Baltic and many Eastern European nations stand out in this regard for the willingness they've shown to dig deep into their military reserves in order to get hardware into Ukrainian hands.

In terms of volumes for key heavy equipment like tanks and mobile rocket and artillery systems, Poland stands out as a critical source. Warsaw has emerged as one of Ukraine's staunchest advocates, shipping tanks by the hundred, and allowing its territory to be converted into a logistical hub while opening its doors to Ukrainians by the millions.

In this video I try to give historical context to Poland's decision to throw its resources behind Ukraine and put focus on what this nation, with an economy nominally the size of New Jersey's (ppp-aside), has done to keep the Ukrainian army fighting while preserving the lives and wellbeing of millions of Ukrainian civilians.

Poland and Baltics have pulled their weight and more - more than most others. They are not the laggards.

 

[wdolson]

If a bully hits you, hit back harder.
And get more and better air defences.

Russia has provided quite a few air defense systems already. They have provided so many they are stripping their air defenses from around Russia to make up for it.

How does that allow the blast to jump 100 or so feet sideways on the other side of the concrete pier?

View attachment 861987

The section of the bridge where the object is see is damaged after wards too, though not as badly as the other section. On the video looking down the road I count three separate explosions, two very close together and the third a few seconds later. The third may have been one of the tank cars catching fire, but there are two detonations at the start.

Exactly. When Göring switched from bombing RAF airfields to central London, the NAZI's already lost the Battle of Britain.

So now let's get some decent point AD assets to defend Kyiv and the other critical civilian infrastructure. Unless it looks too risky from Berlin, then just let them burn. /s

The Russians fired 75 missiles at Ukrainian cities yesterday, the Ukrainian claim AA shot down 41.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579382694961901568

That's pretty good. A couple of decades ago even the US wouldn't have been able to shoot down any. Shooting down missiles is very difficult, a defense system only has seconds to calculate the trajectory of the missile and fire a counter missile. The latest generation missiles vary their trajectory to confuse anti-missile systems. Fortunately the missiles Russia are sending are not that sophisticated. (That MANPAD video is an amazing shot.)

Poland and Baltics have pulled their weight and more - more than most others. They are not the laggards.

Contribution vs GDP Poland's contribution has been the largest by a good margin.

 

[madodel]

Ukraine Denounces Russia As 'Terrorist State' At Emergency UN Meeting Following Deadly Missile Strikes

Someone has to take out the war criminal Putin. And if his replacement is as evil or worse then take them out. And keep at it until there is someone that actual possesses human decency. We got Bin Laden and his successor and don't hear much from those psychopathic terrorists any more.

 

[JRP3]

The section of the bridge where the object is see is damaged after wards too, though not as badly as the other section. On the video looking down the road I count three separate explosions, two very close together and the third a few seconds later. The third may have been one of the tank cars catching fire, but there are two detonations at the start.

That's still some magic bullet level action if the main explosion jumped 100ft sideways on the other side of the pier from the "boat". Also how long do you think the "boat" would need to be if the bow was coming out the other side of the bridge before the first explosion? A 4 lane bridge with space between the two segments has to be at least 45ft wide. The boat would need to be substantially longer to have a secondary explosion go off under the same windward lanes 5+ seconds later, not to mention having to survive the first explosion. Just doesn't add up for me.

 

[wdolson]

Ukraine Denounces Russia As 'Terrorist State' At Emergency UN Meeting Following Deadly Missile Strikes

Someone has to take out the war criminal Putin. And if his replacement is as evil or worse then take them out. And keep at it until there is someone that actual possesses human decency. We got Bin Laden and his successor and don't hear much from those psychopathic terrorists any more.

I know declaring Russia a state sponsor of terrorism or a terrorist state has a lot of appeal, but it triggers a string of things in US law that may not be all that great for world peace. I believe the US can't have diplomatic relations with a terrorist state, it also can't have a treaty. The various arms treaties the US has with Russia would become void overnight.

US companies can't do business with Russia either. I believe there are also sanctions on any country's businesses that does business with that country or its businesses. The US would have to start leveling sanctions on European countries that are still buying Russian gas.

Russia is committing many international crimes and it is attempting to terrorize their neighbor into submitting to their will. It is horrible and it is wrong, but Russia is too large and their relationship with the rest of the world is too complex to be declared a terrorist state.

That's still some magic bullet level action if the main explosion jumped 100ft sideways on the other side of the pier from the "boat". Also how long do you think the "boat" would need to be if the bow was coming out the other side of the bridge before the first explosion? A 4 lane bridge with space between the two segments has to be at least 45ft wide. The boat would need to be substantially longer to have a secondary explosion go off under the same windward lanes 5+ seconds later, not to mention having to survive the first explosion. Just doesn't add up for me.

It could be the object seen in that video was not a bomb boat, but something else but the bridge was blown from below anyway.

 

[jabloomf1230]

It's almost a crime it didn't happen a lot sooner.

True, but providing them in response to a Putin action is strategically less provocative.

 

[petit_bateau]

The section of the bridge where the object is see is damaged after wards too, though not as badly as the other section. On the video looking down the road I count three separate explosions, two very close together and the third a few seconds later. The third may have been one of the tank cars catching fire, but there are two detonations at the start.

My personal opnion is that the photo/video evidence only supports one bomb explosion. The reason 'two' light flashes are seen (imho) is that the detonation occurs under the bridge and the explosion becomes visible on one side before it becomes visible on the other. I think (but am not sure) that the 'third' light flash occurs is not so obvios but may be the railway tank car exploding when the ejecta hit it - I am unsure from the video.

 

[nativewolf]

Good thread with input from a Finn expert

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579480666282287104

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Ukraine Denounces Russia As 'Terrorist State' At Emergency UN Meeting Following Deadly Missile Strikes

Someone has to take out the war criminal Putin. And if his replacement is as evil or worse then take them out. And keep at it until there is someone that actual possesses human decency. We got Bin Laden and his successor and don't hear much from those psychopathic terrorists any more.

I believe they're too busy running Afghanistan at the moment to rail against US imperialism.

 

[lolachampcar]

Ukraine Denounces Russia As 'Terrorist State' At Emergency UN Meeting Following Deadly Missile Strikes

Someone has to take out the war criminal Putin. And if his replacement is as evil or worse then take them out. And keep at it until there is someone that actual possesses human decency. We got Bin Laden and his successor and don't hear much from those psychopathic terrorists any more.

As long as that "someone" is Russia cleaning up its own dumpster fire. Anyone else does it and it is an attack on Russian territory which is an escalation we all need to avoid. Do not give Russia an excuse; let them bleed themselves out all by themselves.