The best with these speculations is that you are back @AnxietyRanger.
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Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD
- Thread starter AnxietyRanger
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- Model S
sillydriver
Member
I think I know what Augmented Mode will be.One more thought on "Augmented Mode", how about the car suggesting recommended driving lines, economic braking points etc. in addition to simply navigation intructions on the augmented reality HUD display. That certainly would fit the bill of enhancing human driving ability...
This may be too wild, but given Tesla's penchant for popular culture and showiness, maybe they'd even entertain track-specific racing lines for some tracks. Something akin to this on an AR display...
...but maybe this is a speculation too far.
I recently watched the public videos of lectures for MIT's "Deep Learning for Self-Driving Cars" class (a great set of lectures) MIT 6.S094: Deep Learning for Self-Driving Cars. One of the three guest lecturers (I can't remember which) whose slides were not available for download showed a kind of super stability control where the computer would track the road (or track) with cameras and add its own steering inputs on top of the driver's inputs to keep the driver from overcorrecting or overcooking a turn, and to cause the car to follow the path that it judges the driver wants to take in situations where the car was near the limit of adhesion. The system is always on and would not interfere in normal driving. During extreme situations (or on a track) it would seamlessly provide up to roughly half of the steering input when needed. The driver is saved from most spins and crashes. When drivers who tried it were interviewed later they reported feeling in greater control of their car when activated than when off, even though their own inputs were being partly overrided.
That’s most likely how it will be. Not very surprising and not super new either. The current Mercedes S class already has a similar mode, where instead of normal Lane Keeping Assist, the car does do a bit of autocorrection on your steering input when it thinks your intention is to remain centered in your lane.
A lot of reviewers mentioned that when the system turned off at around 100mph on the Autobahn, the car suddenly felt scarier to drive.
sillydriver
Member
Yes, although the system described in the lecture dealt with curves, which would be harder. What the lecture did not mention was augmenting throttle and brake control as well as steering control. For example, people get in trouble if they suddenly lift the throttle when they think they have entered a curve too fast. Then you get trailing throttle oversteer and a spin. The ultimate "augmented mode" for a hot sports car would add overriding inputs for throttle and brake when the computer determines that it's necessary to make it safely through the turn that the camera sees, and whose geometry the computer has determined. That's the key difference from any normal stability control - the computer sees the geometry of the curve or compound curve that you're facing and moves you toward the optimal line to get through it.
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Thanks, guys. Very plausible indeed, even I noted "some form of advanced traction control - or a combination of both vision and other augmented features" in #119.
That said, the super stability control doesn't really explain the flying metal suit or spaceship control references from Elon, while an augmented reality HUD (or alternatively an AR display, similar to Mercedes Benz) could? Given the AR HUD development space heating up, I still find it quite plausible.
It is true that the Germans etc. already do various augmented driving features (e.g. camera-based road condition detection and automated response), not just visual ones. But also visual, Mercedes Benz already has an augmented reality navigation on the market right now and Audi has the augmented reality 360-degree moving CGI/3D parking camera. And as said, AR HUDs are also in the works and prototypes or concepts have been shown by various car makers. So, AR is not far-fetched either.
But it is true the Tesla Roadster "Augmented Mode" could also be simply a non-visual driving aid. Or it could not appear at all, as not all features publicized by Elon/Tesla make it into production. Given its Roadster sportscar background, could also be unrelated to what appears on Model S/X at all.
This is in the new A Class from Mercedes Benz:
This is the Audi parking camera (new A6/A7/A8):
A BMW concept:
Good luck to all with the speculation!
That said, the super stability control doesn't really explain the flying metal suit or spaceship control references from Elon, while an augmented reality HUD (or alternatively an AR display, similar to Mercedes Benz) could? Given the AR HUD development space heating up, I still find it quite plausible.
It is true that the Germans etc. already do various augmented driving features (e.g. camera-based road condition detection and automated response), not just visual ones. But also visual, Mercedes Benz already has an augmented reality navigation on the market right now and Audi has the augmented reality 360-degree moving CGI/3D parking camera. And as said, AR HUDs are also in the works and prototypes or concepts have been shown by various car makers. So, AR is not far-fetched either.
But it is true the Tesla Roadster "Augmented Mode" could also be simply a non-visual driving aid. Or it could not appear at all, as not all features publicized by Elon/Tesla make it into production. Given its Roadster sportscar background, could also be unrelated to what appears on Model S/X at all.
This is in the new A Class from Mercedes Benz:
This is the Audi parking camera (new A6/A7/A8):
A BMW concept:
Good luck to all with the speculation!
Will be interested to see what Tesla comes up with given Porsche will soon launch their first all Eletric car the "Taycan" .
Hoping the next versions of the Model S & X will have a firmer suspension for handling the corners. This could be why we have not seen the revision yet. Maybe Tesla was waiting to see what the others are going to launch before launching their new versions?
Porsche's all-electric rival to the Tesla Model S is scheduled to go on sale in 2019 and will spawn multiple variants
Porsche Taycan name confirmed for production version of Mission E | Autocar
Hoping the next versions of the Model S & X will have a firmer suspension for handling the corners. This could be why we have not seen the revision yet. Maybe Tesla was waiting to see what the others are going to launch before launching their new versions?
Porsche's all-electric rival to the Tesla Model S is scheduled to go on sale in 2019 and will spawn multiple variants
Porsche Taycan name confirmed for production version of Mission E | Autocar
They had to use a trashy name, all the good ones were tayken
A note on the SpaceX Option Package for the new Roadster and the "10 rocket thrusters" Elon mentioned. This is something, assuming it ever surfaces, I don't expect to see in a Model S/X anytime soon, but still a word on its plausibility. The word rocket is perhaps a bit misleading (and likely intentionally so), but putting electrically-filled, compressed-air thrusters for an aerodynamic effect in a road-going, electric car certainly sounds plausible to me. Especially with a company like Tesla with history of producing their crazy ideas (looking at those falcon wings outside the window, still love-hate them!).
It has to be remembered that the competition uses several advanced steering and handling technologies that the relatively simple Teslas so far do not. Active four-wheel steering is becoming pretty much a standard option in high-end Germans, so are smart, active dampers. Electromechanical suspension is starting to replace to aging air suspension concept with superior response times and smart, active features affecting drive (e.g. based on camera and radar input). These are shipping, production features in a multitude of high-end premium cars that certainly "augment" the human driving experience.
The competition also uses numerous active spoilers and active air-tunnels to a great handling effect, much, much more so again than the mechanically relatively simple Teslas do. Even the discontinued Model X active spoiler (which I love on mine aesthetically, would hate to buy a new one without it), is a very simple design compared to some of this stuff. It can be argued that this is an area where the competition also has inherent benefits of historical capability that does transfer into BEVs... experience, supplier networks and design capabilities that do give them an edge. The competition has a long history of controlling the forces that impact the car and the road. All these technologies can be considered as part of an "Augmented Mode" as well, since they are "super-human", controlled by the car.
So certainly from this perspective Tesla would need something smart (and would fit Elon's ethos for it to be just different) to compete with the likes of Taycan in the handling department, once the competition really is out there. Having a bunch of software-controllable compressed-air thrusters would certainly fit that bill. Unique-to-Tesla experience that could transfer from the SpaceX space.
The only concern I'd have is how much of the trunk or frunk space does the air-compressor take, but I would imagine this is not really an issue on the Roadster. The other thing is how much its weight would affect regular performance.
Then again, I would also welcome Tesla embracing these smart advancements in traditional handling technologies. Many of them are very smart and useful.
In any case, looking forward to seeing what, if anything, becomes of it.
It has to be remembered that the competition uses several advanced steering and handling technologies that the relatively simple Teslas so far do not. Active four-wheel steering is becoming pretty much a standard option in high-end Germans, so are smart, active dampers. Electromechanical suspension is starting to replace to aging air suspension concept with superior response times and smart, active features affecting drive (e.g. based on camera and radar input). These are shipping, production features in a multitude of high-end premium cars that certainly "augment" the human driving experience.
The competition also uses numerous active spoilers and active air-tunnels to a great handling effect, much, much more so again than the mechanically relatively simple Teslas do. Even the discontinued Model X active spoiler (which I love on mine aesthetically, would hate to buy a new one without it), is a very simple design compared to some of this stuff. It can be argued that this is an area where the competition also has inherent benefits of historical capability that does transfer into BEVs... experience, supplier networks and design capabilities that do give them an edge. The competition has a long history of controlling the forces that impact the car and the road. All these technologies can be considered as part of an "Augmented Mode" as well, since they are "super-human", controlled by the car.
So certainly from this perspective Tesla would need something smart (and would fit Elon's ethos for it to be just different) to compete with the likes of Taycan in the handling department, once the competition really is out there. Having a bunch of software-controllable compressed-air thrusters would certainly fit that bill. Unique-to-Tesla experience that could transfer from the SpaceX space.
The only concern I'd have is how much of the trunk or frunk space does the air-compressor take, but I would imagine this is not really an issue on the Roadster. The other thing is how much its weight would affect regular performance.
Then again, I would also welcome Tesla embracing these smart advancements in traditional handling technologies. Many of them are very smart and useful.
In any case, looking forward to seeing what, if anything, becomes of it.
Apparently Bosch (a major parts maker for pretty much all cars) already has a thruster system for motorcycles, so greatly increasing the likelihood of these appearing in vehicles:
Bosch jet thruster blasts your motorcycle out of a skid
Live and learn.
Bosch jet thruster blasts your motorcycle out of a skid
Live and learn.
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You can't look at the screen when on the track. But I believe you are on the right track. Supercars have helper modes to let non-pro use the power and not crash. What Musk is probably talking about is using sensors to make the car safely go where you want it to go. Advance drift mode on high end racy cars is one example of this sort of functionality. Sorta drive by wire.
Cheap drones are possible because the physics can be sensed and processed. You don't tell a drone how to fly, you tell it where to go. Managing the four rotors directly would be extremely difficult.
But you can look at a heads-up display while on track...
But yes, I agree and fully acknowledge there is a wide range of drive augmentation possibilities that don't involve displaying information and many examples already on the market have been mentioned above. Interesting to see how it will all play out. I'm still a believer in the augmented reality HUD, theory. Interesting also the talk of the FSD features. I think traffic light and stop sign recognition for FSD (as well as speed limit recognition for EAP) could be a place to start... remember the old iconography found in Teslas...
Indeed, ESP is an automotive example of this... as are thrusters.
The new Tesla HVAC system patent could fit the rumoured Model S/X dashboard facelift. Elon recently mentioned Model 3 can't fit the full Model S/X system, so it would make sense Model S/X would get something special in the update, while reaping Model 3's new benefits as well... What do you think?
Tesla files patent for new HVAC system
Tesla files patent for new HVAC system
They could easily leave off detail of the redesign that doesn't apply to the patent, but it looks like the screens are smaller. I also note the speedometer is in KM/H in the drawing.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
It sure is Tie-can them a long time to bring that thing to market! (read with Southern accent)
Thanks, guys. Very plausible indeed, even I noted "some form of advanced traction control - or a combination of both vision and other augmented features" in #119.
That said, the super stability control doesn't really explain the flying metal suit or spaceship control references from Elon, while an augmented reality HUD (or alternatively an AR display, similar to Mercedes Benz) could? Given the AR HUD development space heating up, I still find it quite plausible.
It is true that the Germans etc. already do various augmented driving features (e.g. camera-based road condition detection and automated response), not just visual ones. But also visual, Mercedes Benz already has an augmented reality navigation on the market right now and Audi has the augmented reality 360-degree moving CGI/3D parking camera. And as said, AR HUDs are also in the works and prototypes or concepts have been shown by various car makers. So, AR is not far-fetched either.
But it is true the Tesla Roadster "Augmented Mode" could also be simply a non-visual driving aid. Or it could not appear at all, as not all features publicized by Elon/Tesla make it into production. Given its Roadster sportscar background, could also be unrelated to what appears on Model S/X at all.
This is in the new A Class from Mercedes Benz:
This is the Audi parking camera (new A6/A7/A8):
A BMW concept:
Good luck to all with the speculation!
BMW has a virtual 360 degree parking option as well. It's pretty sweet.