There's a guy in the UK who has replaced his 12V battery with a lithium one. Waiting to see how that holds up but he says no problems so far.
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Replacing the 12V aux Battery
- Thread starter scotty2541
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That one would make me nervous. You stress a Li Ion battery when you charge it full (or over charge), and when you deplete it. A normal Lead Acid isn't as touchy. Which is why I use "standard mode" and my main battery is still near new after three years.
So, is he controlling the charge? If not, it'll have a shorter life too. And is likely much more expensive.
How long has he been running it?
Jaff
Active Member
I have a 40ah Lithium battery in my Roadster's trunk to power the sound system...another one of the reason's that I did not replace my 12v battery (running the Roadster's other systems), is that Lithium batteries require a special charger...the Roadster is recharging a 12v lead acid battery from their Lithium ESS...to me, this means that the "recharging setup" between the ESS & the 12v is NOT using a Lithium charger for the 12v, it is using a lead acid charger.
I am not nearly technical enough to understand the differences between these two types of battery chargers, so I would not make this change as I would not want to risk damaging the ESS / damaging the 12v battery / starting a fire due to an incompatible recharging setup between the ESS & the 12v.
The small Lithium battery charger that I use to recharge my 12v Lithium battery for my sound system is a special charger for Lithium batteries...it pre-conditions the battery prior to charging it...charges in stages, and has a few other features that the Lithium battery manufacturer's say that a Lithium battery charger must do (that a lead acid battery charger doesn't do) to safely charge the Lithium battery...I mean, this could all be marketing buncombe, and the Lithium and Lead acid chargers are identical, but for a few quid, I was not going to take a chance of damaging my car by going against the manufacturer's advice...
I am not nearly technical enough to understand the differences between these two types of battery chargers, so I would not make this change as I would not want to risk damaging the ESS / damaging the 12v battery / starting a fire due to an incompatible recharging setup between the ESS & the 12v.
The small Lithium battery charger that I use to recharge my 12v Lithium battery for my sound system is a special charger for Lithium batteries...it pre-conditions the battery prior to charging it...charges in stages, and has a few other features that the Lithium battery manufacturer's say that a Lithium battery charger must do (that a lead acid battery charger doesn't do) to safely charge the Lithium battery...I mean, this could all be marketing buncombe, and the Lithium and Lead acid chargers are identical, but for a few quid, I was not going to take a chance of damaging my car by going against the manufacturer's advice...
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That would be me, its been working fine with 0 issues so far. 12v battery service required, can it be replaced with lithium? | Page 2 | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
@Perrin21: which part of the UK are you in? I acquired a Roadster last week and love the car; the forum seems to be a good place to learn about potential issues so I know what's happening if things misbehave.
I have bought a litium battery and shall replace mine old 12v battery with that
The new battery is a Shoai LFX09L2-BS12 (same as the uk guys one)
I cost me 1280Skr aprox $150 including shipping and 25% sales tax
I maybe will take some phots when i repace it but it won't befere the weekend
The new battery is a Shoai LFX09L2-BS12 (same as the uk guys one)
I cost me 1280Skr aprox $150 including shipping and 25% sales tax
I maybe will take some phots when i repace it but it won't befere the weekend
spaceballs
Member
This battery doesn't looks like it has an on board BMS, I be somewhat cautious of it use over time (i.e. differences in cell IR). if I would to use this I would use their charger Shorai Dedicated Charger - Shorai Lithium Batteries (it's has proper cell balancing charcing) every few months, i.e. discharge the battery then use their dedicated charger.
As i promice i have taken some photos
The passinger side front wheel off
The front part of the fender wall is taken off
The old battery
The new battery compare to the old one 3kg down to a 1/2 kg
The poles are switch aiginst the old one and it will monted on the side insted of upright
The new in placed layed on the side and ready to put everthing back aigin
O **** a shoebox in the background
And i have theft alarm on my car i have never recongince thet before and i can lock the car and unlock it
The passinger side front wheel off
The front part of the fender wall is taken off
The old battery
The new battery compare to the old one 3kg down to a 1/2 kg
The poles are switch aiginst the old one and it will monted on the side insted of upright
The new in placed layed on the side and ready to put everthing back aigin
O **** a shoebox in the background
And i have theft alarm on my car i have never recongince thet before and i can lock the car and unlock it
Yes, every few months would be a good idea to pull it and use the real charger. But I wouldn't "discharge" it. Notice that the Roadster in "standard mode" it only discharges to 10%. So don't deplete it, it'll shorten the life or kill it.
When you truly deplete a LiOn cell, it's a gonner. That's why LiOn batteries in mobile phones claim to be empty, the phone will still turn on, then turn off immediately.
You should check the spec on the battery about what the operating range is, and only discharge it to 50%. Then, as SpaceBalls says, use their charger to balance the cell pack. The ones I've seen are typically 3.2 to 2.8 / cell. So times four is 12.8 when full, and 11.2 when ready to be recharged.
IHMO
-Scotty
I just installed a $24 one from Ebay. Same specs and size. For that money I don't mind changing it every two years.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321724902779?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321724902779?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Mark77a
Member
Mmm didn't know about the DIAG command .. thanks
I got following reply:
RED led:0
GRN led:1
NET State:0x0020
12v Line:11.6 ref=11.6
Crashes:0 < nope, not hit anything recently
Seriously tho', I think I'll get a new 12v battery on next service, hopefully covered by warantee.
But what do all the other things mean ? eg LED's ? and Net state ?
Mine is line:11.6 ref=11.7Mmm didn't know about the DIAG command .. thanks
I got following reply:
RED led:0
GRN led:1
NET State:0x0020
12v Line:11.6 ref=11.6
Crashes:0 < nope, not hit anything recently
Seriously tho', I think I'll get a new 12v battery on next service, hopefully covered by warantee.
But what do all the other things mean ? eg LED's ? and Net state ?
It's not clear to me what line is, nor whether this is getting low. Is there a consensus on what it should read and what the danger signal is?
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I'm wondering if this is why one of the previous owners installed 12V trickle charger leads under the hood of my car, on the passenger side. The lead looks like the same one on the left side of this picture:
http://www.batterystuff.com/images/products/Jac900-12_lg.jpg
But, I'm not sure how that would be helpful. I can't see why you'd need to trickle charge the +12V battery. Or test it regularly? Maybe if it fails, you could power it up using those leads and be able to open the car with the keyfob? Not sure why you'd need that.
http://www.batterystuff.com/images/products/Jac900-12_lg.jpg
But, I'm not sure how that would be helpful. I can't see why you'd need to trickle charge the +12V battery. Or test it regularly? Maybe if it fails, you could power it up using those leads and be able to open the car with the keyfob? Not sure why you'd need that.
Sorry to disappoint, but I wouldn't trust the OVMS 12V measurement. Firstly, it is measuring the 12V from the ESS convertor, not from that little lead acid 12V in the wheel arch. Secondly, it gets its measurement from a voltage divider network and ADC - accuracy is better with the latest firmware, but not great.
Looking back to see when I did this... I just had to replace the battery again. Last night to be specific.
On the plus side, I'm getting much faster at doing it!
On the minus side, the $60 battery is now $80, and it didn't last very long. Looks like 15 months. But I bought the same model again.
Maybe next year I'll buy the more expensive one to see how long it lasts. Or try a LiPo if I can find one with a built in BMS.
On the plus side, I'm getting much faster at doing it!
On the minus side, the $60 battery is now $80, and it didn't last very long. Looks like 15 months. But I bought the same model again.
Maybe next year I'll buy the more expensive one to see how long it lasts. Or try a LiPo if I can find one with a built in BMS.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
What about something like this? There seem to be new LiFePo4 batteries with built-in BMS:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005I7M7DS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687742
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005I7M7DS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687742
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