Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Refer to old Saturn commercials in which they take a bat to the panels to show the resiliency.
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Refer to old Saturn commercials in which they take a bat to the panels to show the resiliency.
It appears to me that that are a few of important issues that keep getting lost as this thread expands:-
1/ The issue is a particularly daft design flaw and should be remedied by Tesla ASA-flippin'-P! I am sup prised the Tesla haters have not latched on to this issue yet.
2/ A remedy cannot simply be achieved by making the metal thicker or tougher as it is designed to protect pedestrians in a collision - this is (I suspect) set in stone.
3/ No one has yet explained what the mechanism of damage causation is - could it simply be a matter of lubricating the latch mechanism so the hood shuts easier? Is it caused simply by dropping the hood from too high a point? If so, would simply a different spec'ed air stay prevent the hood from ever hitting the latch with enough speed to cause the crease?
4/ A cure. As others have suggested, it occurs to me (tho I have no knowledge of the way the latching mechanism is designed) that the simplest solution for Tesla would be a 'drop in' replacement, self-closing latch system. I expect this is easier said than done, may be impossible and will certainly be relatively expensive. I am a bit puzzled, though, why the rear hatch gets a automated closing system (with the Tech Package) but the front doesn't *especially* given this issue of hood creasing.
5/ For those who do not need to use the frunk, is there a setting to disable access to it using the fob - thus preventing 'just anyone' opening it (and, therefore, potentially damaging it)?
Regards and season's greetings to one and all,
Martin Winlow.
1/ The issue is a particularly daft design flaw and should be remedied by Tesla ASA-flippin'-P! I am sup prised the Tesla haters have not latched on to this issue yet.
2/ A remedy cannot simply be achieved by making the metal thicker or tougher as it is designed to protect pedestrians in a collision - this is (I suspect) set in stone.
3/ No one has yet explained what the mechanism of damage causation is - could it simply be a matter of lubricating the latch mechanism so the hood shuts easier? Is it caused simply by dropping the hood from too high a point? If so, would simply a different spec'ed air stay prevent the hood from ever hitting the latch with enough speed to cause the crease?
4/ A cure. As others have suggested, it occurs to me (tho I have no knowledge of the way the latching mechanism is designed) that the simplest solution for Tesla would be a 'drop in' replacement, self-closing latch system. I expect this is easier said than done, may be impossible and will certainly be relatively expensive. I am a bit puzzled, though, why the rear hatch gets a automated closing system (with the Tech Package) but the front doesn't *especially* given this issue of hood creasing.
5/ For those who do not need to use the frunk, is there a setting to disable access to it using the fob - thus preventing 'just anyone' opening it (and, therefore, potentially damaging it)?
Regards and season's greetings to one and all,
Martin Winlow.
I doubt that it's lubrication as mine has never been lubricated and no dent despite frequent use. From what I've read, it seems that some are much harder to close than others--I put this down to the difference in seal height, but it could be the placement of the latch mechanism.
I think dropping is a red herring. Dropping it just doesn't close it properly as there isn't enough weight, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.
As to why it's not known. Tesla isn't saying and no one wants to purchase 20-30 hoods and perform experiments to see what does and doesn't cause the dent.
Besides costs, it's the regulations in various countries. With the hatch you can have a one-size-fits-all solution as it's not a safety issue if the hatch comes open when driving--and it's not likely too anyway--even if defective. With a motorized hood, you might need one for each country/jurisdiction.
Oh, right, those plastic panels on the outside... I actually thought that was a great idea!
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
This is why I think we need some videos of people with creases showing how they normally close the frunk. It could be a problem with technique, or a problem with the latch being too stiff, or something else. A video would point us in the direction of the cause...or at least possibly eliminate one or two possibilities.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
I thought it was resolved that the frunk insulation was too high on some cars, requiring excessive force to get the latch to engage.
Just took delivery of my P85D last night. I've driven a Porsche 911 for 8 years which only has a frunk. The frunk on the P85D is VERY difficult to close in comparison to the 911 -- I could feel the hood flexing as I was putting pressure on it, hands about 6 inches apart on either side of the "T". The amount of pressure required was nearly as much as "doing a push up on the hood".
Assuming something isn't just "wrong" with my car, I agree that this is a design flaw.
Assuming something isn't just "wrong" with my car, I agree that this is a design flaw.
My S85 requires hardly any force to close--not zero, but not a great deal either, and I do the same 6-12" on either side of the "T". I'm still thinking this is a problem with the seals around the hood being of different heights.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
I've got the crease and no reason to blame anyone for closing it improperly. Everyone who has used it knows how to close it. In my opinion, the crease forms during normal road flexure because the latch is pulling too tightly against the hood seals. The evidence is that the latch pulls at a single point and that point is where the crease forms. A double latch or one with otherwise more distributed tension would seem to be a step in the right direction.
So there are two aspects; how to fix it and how to prevent it from recurring. I'm disappointed I'm not seeing anything here about the latter issue. A loosening of the latch mechanism so it doesn't pull so hard against the more distributed seals seem called for to me, though jerry33 reports getting a crease with lower apparent tension on the hood.
Comments?
So there are two aspects; how to fix it and how to prevent it from recurring. I'm disappointed I'm not seeing anything here about the latter issue. A loosening of the latch mechanism so it doesn't pull so hard against the more distributed seals seem called for to me, though jerry33 reports getting a crease with lower apparent tension on the hood.
Comments?
You brought back an old thread.
The older cars had the double-latch system and they had a lot of issues with the frunk crease. When I had my older car, I'm fairly certain I did nothing to cause the crease since I never used the frunk, but the service center claimed I closed my frunk improperly causing the crease. It would cost $600 to from an outside service to repair it and I chose not to do it because I wasn't sure if the problem would come back due to, what I consider, a flaw in the design of the frunk. Tesla did do some continuous improvements over time to try and address the problem with newer cars, but I don't know if they solved it.
Newer cars now have a single-latch system that's a bit easier to close than the older double-latch cars. I traded in my older car for a newer one and I don't yet have the frunk crease <knock on wood>. Only time will tell whether the frunk crease will appear.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
Thanks for this; it's very interesting as I had no idea that older cars had a different latch setup that also had problems.
The Rockville MD Service Center insists that anything but pressure at the corners of the hood (as indicated in the owners manual) will cause the crease. We have been using two hands about halfway between the center and the corners, so their position is that we caused our crease by departing from the owners manual procedure.
I'm wondering if the problem comes from pressing on the hood surface, or if it could be caused as I speculated earlier, by the latch mechanism pulling down on the hood against the compression of the rubber seal. The stresses on the hood are a bit different in those two cases:
i) There is the bending stress from the moment between the force points (localized) and the resistance of the seal compression (more distributed). It isn't obvious how that bending stress distorts the metal to make a crease, but it doesn't seem impossible, and I see some evidence of the corners having lifted up slightly, indicating a straightening of the edge line.
ii) There is added stress directly on the part that deforms, when pushing down on the upper surface, compared with pulling down by the latch mechanism. I suppose this is Tesla's thinking about the crease, that it represents a deformation of the outer surface relative to the inner surface by downward pressure.
An effective test of these two possibilities would be to have a latch mechanism that draws the hood down from the inside, so no pressure needs to be applied to the outer surface. And of course we'd all much prefer that regardless of the crease problems.
If no crease results except when pressing down from above, that would settle the matter, and a mechanized latch would thenceforth completely eliminate the crease problem.
If a crease still results from the mechanized latch, we'd know that no amount of careful placement of hands when closing the hood will ever prevent it, and Tesla would know that they have a design problem with the strength of the hood itself.
It seems about time to me that such a mechanism was tested and supplied with future Model S. Does anyone know how this works on the newer Model S or X?
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alexucf
Member
This still remains the only "un-tesla" thing about Tesla. They just refuse to acknowledge the poor design, even after changing the frunk's instructions.
Hope this isn't an issue for current production cars.
Hope this isn't an issue for current production cars.
