Range Reduced on Dual Motor Configs?

[andrewket]

Tracking P85D delivery thread

That's earlier than any vin we have on the spreadsheet.

Yep. Maybe a demo car? 38 kW per 100 miles. 380 wH/mile.

Edit: ah I see everyone else saw the 242 range. I saw the energy use first. So I'm really confused. What happened to more efficient??

 

[pdx]

The epa rating on the P85D shows 242 what is it on the s85 and s60. I assume they are also lower than what Tesla shows at 65 under ideal conditions.

I was just going to ask that...

 

[MarcG]

The epa rating on the P85D shows 242 what is it on the s85 and s60. I assume they are also lower than what Tesla shows at 65 under ideal conditions.

Check my post on the previous page. Or check Tesla's design site.

Here you go:

Model S 65 range: 215 (ideal), 208 (EPA)
Model S 85 range: 285 (ideal), 265 (EPA)
Model S 85D range: 295 (ideal), no EPA yet
Model S P85D range: 285 (ideal), no EPA yet

242 is considerably lower than 285..

 

[DJ Frustration]

I ruminated and ultimately posted about the reduced range of the dual compared to non-dual motor configs, but it was explained away. I had a feeling I was right.

Take a look:
Range Reduced on Dual Motor Configs?

 

[crazybrit]

Check my post on the previous page. Or check Tesla's design site.

Here you go:



242 is considerably lower than 285..

You should be comparing it to the 265 range. In reality, when you need the range, most of it will be highway driving, where it is more efficient. It will be interesting to see what the real world range looks like. Anyone know the EPA of the P85+ with 21s?

 

[NOLA_Mike]

You should be comparing it to the 265 range. In reality, when you need the range, most of it will be highway driving, where it is more efficient. It will be interesting to see what the real world range looks like. Anyone know the EPA of the P85+ with 21s?

 

[Rice390]

Yep. Maybe a demo car? 38 kW per 100 miles. 380 wH/mile.

Edit: ah I see everyone else saw the 242 range. I saw the energy use first. So I'm really confused. What happened to more efficient??

Another tidbit - Motor Trend estimated 40/39 kWh/100 miles during their review. I thought that was just a mistake.

But ya... This is a bit concerning.

 

[MarcG]

View attachment 65177

That's weird, P85D's mpg-e is the same overall, slightly worse in city and better highway, yet total range is a lot worse...

 

[403portside]

All of us owners who have sold/traded in cars with the expectation of 285. Wow. This is hard to believe. I will have a BIG problem with Tesla if this was mis-represented.

 

[drsaab]

The s85 on fueleconomy.gov shows

Electricity

Combined MPG:89 MPGe City MPGe:88 Highway MPGe:90 combined city/highway city highway

38 kWh/100 mi

265 miles Total Range

No difference for 19 or 21" wheels.

And doesn't the manufacturer give the EPA the numbers. That is why KIA and Hyundai had to give owners back like $250 each because they reported too high numbers on the fuel economy for the EPA sticker and when finally epa tested after complaints etc it was a lot lower. Same with the Ford hybrids. Ford lowered the EPA numbers after complaints, the EPA did not lower them.

So then would Tesla not also give the EPA the data like all other manufactures, until the epa gets around to testing itself.

with the same batty pack size and same combined 89 mpge the range Should be the same.. quite strange it is.

 

[uselesslogin]

I had read Mercedes running into this with the B class electric as well. EPA range number is for standard mode I think now and in 2012 it used range mode. Notice the MPGe is the same and actually quite a bit better on the highway. I'm sure you will all be happy with it in the real world.

Edit, here is an article that mentions EPA range measurement for 2013 changed and averages standard and range modes. If I assume they used 90% of the range setting then the 2012 EPA measurement would be 269 miles.
2013 Nissan Leaf Real-World Range: Is It Any Higher?

 

[techmaven]

EPA tests, including the highway portion have a lot of start stop in it. As we know, YMMV and the long distance range has more to do with steady driving and the EPA rating may not be representative.

 

[DJ Frustration]

An interesting development over at the P85D delivery thread.
Tracking P85D delivery thread - Page 127

This may be interesting to some. In the public area.

View attachment 65167

 

[Cottonwood]

An interesting development over at the P85D delivery thread.
Tracking P85D delivery thread - Page 127

Here is an enlargement from that post. 242 EPA miles for the P85D.

 

[breser]

Found the thread where someone had the call from the DS about reduced range and there's a statement from Jerome about the range.

The P85D and the S85 have about the same range at constant speed on the highway. However, in EPA range testing (combination of cycles), the P85D is expected to have a lower rated range than the S85. If you want to maximize range, I would recommend the 85D, whose deliveries will start in February 2015. That’s our vehicle with the longest range

 

[DJ Frustration]

The thing that jumps out to me is the City, Highway are different between the D and non-D but the Combined is the same as is the 38 kWh/100 miles. But why does the D version only go 242 vs. 265 for the non-D?

View attachment 65177

This may be interesting to some. In the public area.

View attachment 65167

 

[commasign]

Guess I'll be using auto-pilot at the posted speed limit.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

EPA tests, including the highway portion have a lot of start stop in it. As we know, YMMV and the long distance range has more to do with steady driving and the EPA rating may not be representative.

I know people are concerned, but let's wait to see real-world results rather than the EPA cycle results. The EPA cycle is only a rough estimate.

My Honda Civic is rated at 34 MPG highway and 29 MPG overall (manual transmission), but it easily achieves 40 MPG highway when fully loaded, which is a huge difference.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I ruminated and ultimately posted about the reduced range of the dual compared to non-dual motor configs, but it was explained away. I had a feeling I was right.

Take a look:
Range Reduced on Dual Motor Configs?

Although, the difference in range numbers can't be accounted for using EPA efficieny ratings.

Maybe there's been a testing cycle change.

 

[Denarius]

I'm perfectly happy with the new range. When I'm doing a lot of city driving, I don't need the range. When I do need the range I'm on the interstate, and I'll get more range there.