Ran out of juice, 12V and main pack drained, need info.

[ThosEM]

I like this idea.

And please note that the teams that did the LA to NYC rally for Tesla had Model S equipped to display battery percentage charge, rather than rated miles. This was visible in photos of their dash displays.

So I asked them how close to empty they went when skipping SCs in pursuit of the maximum charging rate, and they responded (in comments on the blog, I believe) that it was typical for them to roll into the SC at 3% charge remaining. Assuming a direct conversion, that would correspond to 265*0.03 or 8 rated miles. That's a pretty slim margin but it illustrates how far the real pros are willing to go. Of course, for them, a stop at a campground or a Nissan dealership would have been catastrophic in terms of the rally goals.

I wonder if the "reserve tank" was also shut off for them. It seems likely since they clearly had customized software not available to private Model S owners.

I just sent this to ownership@

Ownership team - if you would pass this feedback along to product/engineering I'd appreciate it.

Feature request


At some point, I think it may have been firmware 4.5, Tesla changed how rated range was calculated and displayed. Specifically, prior to this version the rated range displayed to the driver was the full capacity of the battery, minus a reserve that is not accessible to the driver to keep the battery from bricking. After this version, Tesla reserved additional capacity that is accessible to the driver but is not included in the rated range display. In other words, after this change it is possible to drive below 0 rated miles.


I understand the business reasons for this change. Tesla is trying to make EVs easy to use for the masses, and emulating the behavior of an ICE car that has some gas left after the fuel gauge starts flashing E likely meets customer expectations. Unfortunately, this has a negative affect in that the driver doesn't know how much energy or range they have left after hitting zero. As a driver, you're left making estimations. On the forums, some have even described performing linear regressions to estimate how much capacity is left after hitting 0. In an ideal world, drivers would pull over immediately after hitting zero. But that's not what they do. They push it, because there is this unknown "reserve" and without data, they decide to risk it.


I would like an option accessible via the configuration screen to toggle how the rated range is calculated. Option 1 is the default, and is the current behavior, with some amount of capacity in reserve. Option 2 displays the rated range with 100% of the capacity is that is available to the driver. If you hit zero, you're done, the car shuts down.


I think this would meet Tesla's goals of making EVs as easy to use as possible, while simultaneously giving drivers the option to understand the actual state of the battery.


Thanks for your time and consideration,
<name, VIN removed>

 

[Duckjybe]

A generator could have been brought to the car...

Except who wants to wait hours for enough of a charge to just get you to the next charger.

 

[Chipper]

In times like this it would be nice if Tesla had mobile superchargers. I wonder if it would be feasible to put a very specialized 85kwh battery on a truck with the ability to charge it and then discharge it into a model S at similar rates to a supercharger (60 miles in 10minutes)? This would reduce range anxiety quite a bit if there were enough of these mobile charging trucks around.

This is not specifically aimed at you, Duckjybe, but I have to wonder why so many on this forum feel that Tesla ought to be providing a solution to this problem? Even to the point of suggesting Tesla provide an upgrade 85kW battery!! By his own admission Islandbayy clearly accepts the blame for his failure to adequately plan for sufficient charge to get him to point B. I don't ever recall anyone asking GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan/Honda/etc. to provide a solution to those who fail to plan and run out of gas. Yet, despite the ubiquitous abundance of gas stations here in the US I often see folks walking back to their cars gas cans in hand. To me this is an owner/operator issue that needs to be resolved at that level.

 

[yobigd20]

Easy solution FEATURE REQUEST

There's an easy solution to this. It's stupidly simple but it could actually work. Maybe even brilliant.

perhaps Tesla should have a 'bicycle regen' mode and equip the passenger seat and/or rear facing seat with fold out bicycle pedals that tie into the regenerative braking system to regenerate the battery. If you run out of juice like islandbayy and your EV is shutting down, pull over to the shoulder, pop the car into bicycle regen mode, and start peddling. It might take a while, but hey, you just might get enough juice for that 3 miles to the supercharger. And burn some good calories too while you're at it. lol






(however it might take a good 3 hours or so to generate 1000 watts to be able to go that last 3 miles and you could die from a heart attack trying to pedal for 3 hours straight haha, probably better off with a solar canopy and a generator thought that won't help you at 1am unless you're in one of those midnight sun areas)

 

[Chipper]

There's an easy solution to this. It's stupidly simple but it could actually work. Maybe even brilliant.

perhaps Tesla should have a 'bicycle regen' mode and equip the passenger seat and/or rear facing seat with fold out bicycle pedals that tie into the regenerative braking system to regenerate the battery. If you run out of juice like islandbayy and your EV is shutting down, pull over to the shoulder, pop the car into bicycle regen mode, and start peddling. It might take a while, but hey, you just might get enough juice for that 3 miles to the supercharger. And burn some good calories too while you're at it. lol






(however it might take a good 3 hours or so to generate 1000 watts to be able to go that last 3 miles and you could die from a heart attack trying to pedal for 3 hours straight haha, probably better off with a solar canopy and a generator thought that won't help you at 1am unless you're in one of those midnight sun areas)

Is there such a thing as a "good calorie"??? Not according to my wife! Or perhaps the only "good calorie" is the one that is burned??

 

[gglockner]

The meters should show the capacity of the battery, up to the manufacturer's limits. Hiding any capacity is stupid, since people will just try to second-guess that and try to plan for this hidden capacity.

And yobigd20, the product you want is already available: Pedal Generator Pedal Power Generator – Bicycle Like Charger

 

[Doug_G]

A generator could have been brought to the car...

If the generator actually works with the car - which is not necessarily a given - it would only charge at 3-5 km per hour depending on temperature etc. You could be there a full day just to get enough to reach the next charging station.

 

[Duckjybe]

This is not specifically aimed at you, Duckjybe, but I have to wonder why so many on this forum feel that Tesla ought to be providing a solution to this problem? Even to the point of suggesting Tesla provide an upgrade 85kW battery!! By his own admission Islandbayy clearly accepts the blame for his failure to adequately plan for sufficient charge to get him to point B. I don't ever recall anyone asking GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan/Honda/etc. to provide a solution to those who fail to plan and run out of gas. Yet, despite the ubiquitous abundance of gas stations here in the US I often see folks walking back to their cars gas cans in hand. To me this is an owner/operator issue that needs to be resolved at that level.

Sure and I am always ultra conservative with my range calculations. Of course the threat of running out of charge diminishes as more infrastructure is built. But one of the BIG questions non-EV owners ask me is what if I do run out of charge? Nobody wants to be towed so mobile superchargers would be way more convenient and I think would go a long way in getting some people to make the leap to an EV.

 

[bonnie]

It's not Tesla's responsibility. Sorry, it just isn't. We have the information we need. And granted, it is a PAIN to sit and charge at a slow rate. I know. I own a Roadster that I've taken on a few long-distance roadtrips and countless local roadtrips that put me out of range of my home charging system. (Roadster owners don't have supercharging options & very few 70amp options available.)

And there are times I've stopped and charged even when I think I probably have enough (but I'm not sure), just because I know I won't have other options closer to my destination. I knew buying the car that there weren't charging options on every corner & I was responsible for planning. Have I ever limped in on the last electrons? Yes. Once or twice. Within a mile of my house and wondering how foolish I was. Never ever out on the open road, away from the mother ship.

You've got superchargers. (I don't.) Everywhere! (I don't.) That seems pretty cool. And now that's not enough???

 

[miimura]

In theory, Tesla could make a box cabled with two Model S charge port connectors. It would essentially be a modulated direct battery-to-battery emergency charging system. eMotorWerks did a test where they CHAdeMO charged a Leaf directly from a RAV4 EV battery - no grid power input at all. RAV-2-LEAF - charging a Leaf from a RAV via CHAdeMO using one of our chargers - YouTube

 

[mnx]

You know it is partially Tesla's responsibility since they're providing a charging network for their cars and so far that network is inadequate. SC's aren't "everywhere" not even close.

It's not Tesla's responsibility. Sorry, it just isn't. We have the information we need. And granted, it is a PAIN to sit and charge at a slow rate. I know. I own a Roadster that I've taken on a few long-distance roadtrips and countless local roadtrips that put me out of range of my home charging system. (Roadster owners don't have supercharging options & very few 70amp options available.)

And there are times I've stopped and charged even when I think I probably have enough (but I'm not sure), just because I know I won't have other options closer to my destination. I knew buying the car that there weren't charging options on every corner & I was responsible for planning. Have I ever limped in on the last electrons? Yes. Once or twice. Within a mile of my house and wondering how foolish I was. Never ever out on the open road, away from the mother ship.

You've got superchargers. (I don't.) Everywhere! (I don't.) That seems pretty cool. And now that's not enough???

 

[ElSupreme]

You know it sort of is Tesla's responsibility since they're providing a charging network for their cars and so far that network is inadequate. SC's aren't "everywhere" not even close.

The same way it is Toyota's, GM's and VW's responsibility when you run out of fuel in a long stretch between filling stations?

Sorry not buying it.

 

[mnx]

That's a terrible analogy as GM, VW and Toyota don't build fueling stations. Huge difference!

I wouldn't go blaming Exxon or Shell if I ran out of gas, however I would wonder why someone doesn't build a gas station on that long stretch of road. I would probably write Shell a latter asking them to build a fueling station on said route.

I don't blame Tesla in this case. I just think that the current SC network is inadequate. I think we both can agree on that.

The same way it is Toyota's, GM's and VW's responsibility when you run out of fuel in a long stretch between filling stations?

Sorry not buying it.

 

[ElSupreme]

That's a terrible analogy as GM, VW and Toyota don't build fueling stations. Huge difference!

I wouldn't go blaming Exxon or Shell if I ran out of gas however, and I don't blame Tesla in this case. I just think that the current SC network is inadequate. I think we both can agree on that.

I will say I believe the Supercharger infrastructure is not developed enough (but more developed than I would have expected for this time), considering that neither of us has one that could be reached with a single 85kWh charge. (I might be able to limp to Savannah, once it gets warmer)

But Tesla doesn't deserve any of this blame.

 

[Chipper]

You know it is partially Tesla's responsibility since they're providing a charging network for their cars and so far that network is inadequate. SC's aren't "everywhere" not even close.

You gotta be kidding me! There is electricity virtually EVERYwhere. These cars do not require a Supercharger. They will recharge on virtually any source of electricity (some obviously better than others). I can't believe someone is going to blame Tesla because they didn't put a SC 3 miles from the other Supercharger so islandbayy would be able to reach it.

 

[NigelM]

You know it is partially Tesla's responsibility since they're providing a charging network for their cars and so far that network is inadequate. SC's aren't "everywhere" not even close.

Islandbayy was charging but left too early; his calculations didn't include weather and elevation and I'm finding it hard to see how that's Tesla's responsibility.

True story from last week: my wife was at the gym talking to someone who also had a Model S. The person concerned said they looooove Tesla but the car's no good for driving even to Tampa. My puzzled spouse asked why not (Tampa is less than 50 miles away)? The answer came "Oh I never have enough charge, I keep forgetting to plug it in at night...".

Tesla sold the car and provided the UMC, maybe they should also provide butlers?

 

[dsm363]

Telsa certainly has a way to go until Superchargers are even close to gas station density but they don't have to be. Either way it wasn't really the problem in this case as Nigel said.

 

[islandbayy]

We all love our cars and want to drive them anywhere and everywhere, but this trip just sounds like pushing a 60 beyond its reasonable limits in any weather, let alone in the dead of winter and with multiple family members in the car. Until there are Superchargers on every highway and at intervals that even a 60 could do comfortably uphill and into the wind, we either have to build in buffer and expect to have the unexpected when it comes to hills, wind and bad weather -- or (gasp), you just don't take the MS on the trip in the first place (or you trade in your 60 for an 85). 230 Wh/mile one minute might be 380 Wh/mile the next when traveling on roads over which you're not familiar -- and winds kill range just as much.

Yes, I did, and do lush my 60 beyond its limits. I made a stupid mistake not to charge longer and I do and have take full responsibility, I do not deny that.

- - - Updated - - -

It's odd that the pack heater came on
Did you turn on "range mode"?
It shuts off battery heater when it's on

Yah, range mode was on. pack heater still came on despite warm pack.

 

[SFOTurtle]

Well, that explains why he didnt take a different car as had been suggested....

Maybe, but I still wonder why this trip had to happen in the dead of winter with sub-freezing temps and strong blasts of arctic winds cutting down range even further. I love my 60. I've taken it to SoCal twice on road trips. And I know I could take it north up to Canada on I-5 now if I wanted to and probably make the trip without incident. Probably. But with a 60, I really don't have much margin of error for certain trips. I won't be taking my 60 on the northerly route in the winter time, and certainly not with family in the car (which is just fine by me, I didn't buy the car for lengthy road trips although I have enjoyed doing that where I had plentiful charging options). For someone who is seemingly taking long roadtrips every time I check on this forum, I think Islandbayy should strongly consider upgrading to an 85.

 

[jomo25]

Look, island accepts ultimate responsibility and doesn't blame Tesla.

Sure it would help if there were more SCs or more info about the car,s detailed energy usage scenarios, but there aren't, and there weren't going to be any more available during his trip. So he had to plan. Plan he did, but missed a variable or two. He learned something about the car, weather, battery mgmt, and range.

To steal a line from 'A Few Good Men', "He messed up, no sense dwelling on it."

Ultimately. That everyone made it home safe is what matters most now.