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Prediction, in Which Year Will New Electric Vehicle Sales Exceed 50% in the United States "Poll"
- Thread starter SDRick
- Start date
as a single data point. I had a 2013 GM Volt PHEV that I only used L1 as that was all that was necessary as the max I ever needed was 10.1 kwh (usable). 83,500 miles, always plugged in using around 100+ ft of line that when it snowed it was warm enough to melt, 2013 - 2018 then a 2018 Prius Plug in,, max maybe 6-7kwh, again 120v sufficient L1. always plugged in
Tesla Y have a 60 amp L2 wall charger, always plugged in.
A number of folks I knew never plugged in their Ford PHEV's GM Volt PHEV's as pretty useless to them. kinda mind set
look at below chart. PHEV mostly useless except as NEV's due to =>lack of range<= AND daily emails from dealer "please come have your ICE car serviced please we need some money" (seriously, daily for 3+ months)
see below fact sheet
My direct neighbor had a Wrangle 4xe and I can only imagine the answers to my questions that I never asked:
Why did you buy the 4xe? they'd say, "of course to get the $7500 off"
Do you plan on plugging in? "What????"
Btw, they now have a ICE VW...they are not a BEV personality that is typically also carbon red and earth focused
the earth is all we have, have to stay focused on doing what we can to save it
Why did you buy the 4xe? they'd say, "of course to get the $7500 off"
Do you plan on plugging in? "What????"
Btw, they now have a ICE VW...they are not a BEV personality that is typically also carbon red and earth focused
the earth is all we have, have to stay focused on doing what we can to save it
Curious how a Bolt owner could never plug in?
That US News article is pretty worthless and certainly is not proof that "most" owners are not plugging in. Methodology and time period are not given. Just that ICE use is higher than predicted which could be for many reasons.
The data is also from CA which can have little cost savings by using EV mode.
The Wrangler is really an anomaly and happens to be the number one selling PHEV for 2023. So I am sure that is really hurting the average - both IQ and plugging habits - of PHEV owners.
The PHEV concept is reasonable I think. But that doesn't mean the execution in the world of tax credits is reasonable.
That US News article is pretty worthless and certainly is not proof that "most" owners are not plugging in. Methodology and time period are not given. Just that ICE use is higher than predicted which could be for many reasons.
The data is also from CA which can have little cost savings by using EV mode.
The Wrangler is really an anomaly and happens to be the number one selling PHEV for 2023. So I am sure that is really hurting the average - both IQ and plugging habits - of PHEV owners.
The PHEV concept is reasonable I think. But that doesn't mean the execution in the world of tax credits is reasonable.
Indeed, considering that Bolts only exist as BEVs. There's no such thing as a Bolt PHEV.
OT: The best cities and states to own an EV in 2024 - Autoblog and The worst cities and states to own an EV in 2024 - Autoblog link to a very long report that I've not skimmed most of.
OT: The best cities and states to own an EV in 2024 - Autoblog and The worst cities and states to own an EV in 2024 - Autoblog link to a very long report that I've not skimmed most of.
Did you take that from Leading the way in electric cars: Stellantis takes the top spot for all-electric vehicles in Germany in September? That's only about Germany, not the EU as a whole.
Stellantis Begins 2024 with a Great Leap Forward in the European Total and Electrified Markets states "In the Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) market, Stellantis reports a 20% increase compared to last year with double-digit growth in almost all countries, recording a market share of 13.7%[2], up versus Q4 2023".
None of the above matters when we're talking about the US. The US isn't part of the EU.
Recycling rates for some items aren't very high. See National Overview: Facts and Figures on Materials, Wastes and Recycling | US EPA and National Overview: Facts and Figures on Materials, Wastes and Recycling | US EPA
"Similar to generation, EPA used industry data from the Aluminum Association to calculate recycling statistics. In 2018, the total recycling rate of aluminum containers and packaging, which includes beverage containers, food containers, foil and other aluminum packaging, was 34.9 percent. Within this number, the most recycled category of aluminum was beer and soft drink cans, at 50.4 percent (0.67 million tons)."
As for the other things you mention, it depends on where and who. As for "care about winters disappearing", "care" is one thing, assuming they even care. They actually need to be willing to do something about it. We already know the very tiny share BEVs represent of new vehicle sales in the US. And, that's just for starters. There are many other things folks can do to "care" or make a difference but likely most people aren't or aren't willing to do much/anything about it. We probably have 1/3 of the country (if not more) that is in denial about anthropogenic global warming (AGW).
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I didn't say people don't care. I said consumers don't care. It doesn't matter what _people_ think, it matters what consumers and voters do.
Nothing about the US automotive market says that consumers care in any significant way. If consumers _really_ cared purchasing trends would be very different.
If you want consumers to do things differently you need to give them products they will buy.
you PHEV owners that plug in and with mostly very short drives attempt to use only the battery for propulsion, I commend you
you are not typical
typical new PHEV owners want the IRA PoS tax credit and never plug in
its what I hear and see from people I know and the news reports point to the same
lets move on from PHEVs, on this forum its all about BEVs
you are not typical
typical new PHEV owners want the IRA PoS tax credit and never plug in
its what I hear and see from people I know and the news reports point to the same
lets move on from PHEVs, on this forum its all about BEVs
New EVs Still Can’t Beat The Efficiency Of A Plug-In Hybrid
The latest study says a small PHEV like the Toyota Prius Prime is greener than EVs powered by big, heavy batteries.
jalopnik.com
Automakers wary of other states adopting California's 2035 EV mandate - Autoblog
California's EV requirements might be feasible "at least in the early years for California" but success in other states with significantly lower current EV sales "is far less certain."
www.autoblog.com
Unfortunately Prius Prime SE they mention in particular doesn't offer heated seats and some other features. When you go to the next trim (XSE) to get that, or something like a Homelink mirror it's a bit heavier, and they also up the wheel size from 17" to 19" and the AER drops from 44 to 39 miles.New EVs Still Can’t Beat The Efficiency Of A Plug-In Hybrid
The latest study says a small PHEV like the Toyota Prius Prime is greener than EVs powered by big, heavy batteries.
If they offered a wheel choice on the XSE it'd be more interesting and make the SE less of numbers trick.
dbeiler
Member
You didn't actually read the study, did you?
It's a study from 2022.
The study is absolute garbage.
Let's say we wished to perform a study on how often PHEVs are plugged in. How would we go about that? Hmm, maybe we should approach owners of PHEVs and, oh, I don't know, LITERALLY JUST F*CKING ASK THEM!
The basement dwellers who produced this garbage "study" did no such thing. Instead, they went on fuelly.gov, plotted the self-reported fuel economy of PHEV owners, discovered the average reported fuel economy was below the EPA rating, and used that information to make the completely unbased claim that PHEV owners AREN'T PLUGGING IN!!!
CAUSE THAT COULD BE THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLAINATION FOR A VEHICLE FAILING TO MEETS ITS EPA RATING, RIGHT?!
CAUSE NOBODY EVER DRIVES IN WEATHER CONDITIONS THAT IMPACT VEHICLE FUEL ECONOMY, RIGHT?!
CAUSE EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE WE'VE EVER DRIVEN HAS BEEN ABLE TO MEET ITS EPA RATING, RIGHT?!
CAUSE THIS TESLA FORUM ISN'T FILLED WITH PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR VEHICLES FAILING TO MEET EPA RATINGS, RIGHT?!
Garbage study is garbage. Please don't subject us to this garbage study or the garbage media outlets that spread it. Thank you.
"Toyota's Ted Ogawa: Better to buy credits than ‘waste' EV investment
N.A. CEO Ted Ogawa says EVs will be 30% of the U.S. market in 2030, so Toyota will follow consumer demand and buy credits to make up any EPA shortfall."
https://archive.is/SfoFl if you get hit by a paywall.
N.A. CEO Ted Ogawa says EVs will be 30% of the U.S. market in 2030, so Toyota will follow consumer demand and buy credits to make up any EPA shortfall."
https://archive.is/SfoFl if you get hit by a paywall.
Volvo's U.S. EV Sales Slow Down Continued In February 2024 Is a small player but is a data point.
“Volvo plug-in car sales last month (YOY change):
“Volvo plug-in car sales last month (YOY change):
- BEVs: 359 (down 63%) and 4.5% share
- PHEVs: 2,212 (up 51%) and 27.9% share
- Total Recharge: 2,571 (up 6%) and 32.5% share”
Hoping Volvo has the NACS adapter and backend payment system ready once the EX30 starts deliveries this summer.
The EX30 should be very popular.
Good VWs latest in EV software is also finally working and they need their NACS ducks in a row also.
ID4 and EX30 could be huge sellers this summer.
The EX30 should be very popular.
Good VWs latest in EV software is also finally working and they need their NACS ducks in a row also.
ID4 and EX30 could be huge sellers this summer.
Volvo doesn't get the $7.5k unless you lease. It's made in China, and even if it weren't, it's a Chinese company so unlikely to get the tax credit via anything except the leasing loophole.
The lease loophole should only be needed for a few more years, enough time to have manufacturers get their North American factories running well.
~9000g COe is the direct tailpipe emissions only. IEA numbers have another 3300g in wasted energy and emissions from refining. Adding in extraction energy and pipelining Alberta tar sands to Houston the number could be as high as 15000g per gallon "well to wheels".
Bottom line, is a plug in vehicle of any flavor charged on solar emits less per mile than the fossil industry _wastes_ bringing its product to market.
This, combined with the above debate about mild hybrid vs PHEV vs EREV vs BEV has a really simple solution: Don't tax / credit the vehicle. Tax / credit the _fuel_.
Make fossil and other industry pay the costs to get their emissions back out of the atmosphere. I'm not saying go to that system all at once in one big jump, which would be ruinous for the economy of any locale that implemented it. However, a slow gradual increase in fossil taxes funneled directly to capping wells and brownfield remediation, soil carbon sequestration on billions of acres of farm and wild lands, cleaner infrastructure, healthcare costs for affected communities, etc gets the externalities of burning stuff back into internally accounted costs and planning forecasts. Industry and consumers both will automatically align to using more low emissions fuels when the rules of the economic game are set correctly. Of course this requires some unicorns of politicians who will actually write the rules this smartly, instead of being bought and paid for by those bribing them, which is an entirely different topic for a different forum.
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