PMAC vs induction motor for model 3

[D-egg-O]

Interesting find. Toyota's own brochure lists permanent magnet AC motor. EPA document is technically correct. Still an AC motor, just omits the permanent magnet part.

https://www.toyota.com/priusprime/ebrochure

 

[SageBrush]

EPA document is technically correct

The EPA doc says AC induction

 

[D-egg-O]

The EPA doc says AC induction

And? Permanent magnet AC motors still use AC induction.

Edit: How permanent magnet AC motors work.

 

[Thomas Edison]

And? Permanent magnet AC motors still use AC induction.

Edit: How permanent magnet AC motors work.

Induction and permanent magnet motors are two different types of motor, both being AC or not.

 

[D-egg-O]

Induction and permanent magnet motors are two different types of motor, both being AC or not.

Two different types of motors that both rely on AC induction to work. The main difference being the physical makeup of the rotor (one being a permanent magnet and the other not).

 

[Thomas Edison]

I'll let the OP speak for me with his thumbs down.

 

[Zaphod]

Induction and permanent magnet motors are two different types of motor, both being AC or not.

There is such a thing as a permanent magnet AC motor (PMAC motor). Doesn't have to be DC.

Permanent magnet alternating current motors

 

[Thomas Edison]

There is such a thing as a permanent magnet AC motor (PMAC motor). Doesn't have to be DC.

Permanent magnet alternating current motors

Yeah, that's why I put the second part. "Or not"

 

[SageBrush]

I think I better leave a clue:

Toyota uses PMAC in the Prime.
Not AC induction.

PMAC

 

[Thomas Edison]

I think I better leave a clue:

Toyota uses PMAC in the Prime.
Not AC induction.

PMAC

[SARCASM] You might want to add that it's brushless, don't want further confusion. [/SARCASM]

 

[McRat]

Toyota is still running NiMH, I'm surprised it was not listed as:

Electric Motor: Hamster in wheel undergoing shock therapy.

 

[Thomas Edison]

Toyota is still running NiMH

 

[dreamwave6]

And why are we talking about the garbage, pathetic automobile brand that is Toyota and the POS Prius on here? Really queen?

Andrew

 

[D-egg-O]

I think I better leave a clue:

Toyota uses PMAC in the Prime.
Not AC induction.

PMAC

PM or not. Both still use magnetic induction to function. Serious question, what is the purpose of this thread? I'm assuming it's to gather evidence against the EPA documentation listing the Model 3 having a permanent magnet AC motor. Is this correct?

 

[SageBrush]

Serious question, what is the purpose of this thread? I'm assuming it's to gather evidence against the EPA documentation listing the Model 3 having a permanent magnet AC motor. Is this correct?

That is overstated, but the right idea.

The thread really just points out an EPA CSI motor designation error. So I don't think it moves the needle much in deciding whether the Model 3 has a PMAC. It does however suggest that the CSI should not be taken as gospel.

I should have written 'PROOF' like this

-----
Now, one last time, just for you: the PMAC in the Prime does not use induction. I don't know enough physics and engineering to state categorically that a PMAC can never use induction but you are on pretty solid ground for now if you realize that in PMAC the magnetic field is a result of the magnets and in an AC induction motor the magnetic fields result from induction.

 

[Thomas Edison]

I should have written 'PROOF' like this

Ask a mod to change it?

 

[SageBrush]

Ask a mod to change it?

OK.
Rhetorical question: should we also amend the Model 3 EPA CSI document 'information' ?

The greater TMC community has disappointed me.

 

[D-egg-O]

That is overstated, but the right idea.

The thread really just points out another EPA CSI error. So I don't think it moves the needle much in deciding whether the Model 3 has a PMAC. It does however suggest that the CSI should not be taken as gospel.

I should have written 'PROOF' like this

-----
Now, one last time, just for you: the PMAC in the Prime does not use induction.

If the prime doesn't rely on AC induction, what does it rely on? (besides shocking the hamster)

I agree those EPA documents are littered with typos and other errors, but they are the official documents of the freaking EPA.

Back to the topic at hand. There are some advantages to using a PMAC, but the drawbacks have generally been relying on the availability and pricing of rare earth metals. Someone in the Electrek article referenced this link. If Tesla was able to bring down costs on other components of the motor, maybe it justified going to a PMAC design architecture. Or maybe they secured reasonable pricing on the permanent magnets.

 

[SageBrush]

If the prime doesn't rely on AC induction, what does it rely on?

For a magnetic field ? The magnets
Induction motors do not have magnets, at least not in the current iterations of motor technology .

I get the feeling you do not understand what AC induction implies. It is not to generate AC, it is to use AC to generate magnetic fields.

There are more disadvantages to PM motors than just worrying about the Chinese. I recommend that you read the blog posts at Tesla.com for great insight.

 

[Thomas Edison]

OK.
Rhetorical question: should we also amend the Model 3 EPA CSI document 'information' ?

The greater TMC community has disappointed me.

All I was saying is that if you made a mistake in your title that a mod has the ability to correct it.