PG&E Rates??? For California owners

[srl99]

Did you compare TOU E-6 with SmartRate plan vs. EV? I am into Tier 3 every month but never Tier 4 as I only charge MS maybe 30 kWh a week at home.

I've looked at this thread, PGE E-9A vs E-6 for Model S owners with Solar,
but the rates that were used as a comparison are old and do not reflect added discounted rates for SmartRate under E-6. I'm using about 500-600 kWh a month even in summer and trying to figure out whether EV would be cheaper. I'm very dubious of the PG&E website's comparison calculator where EV plan is always better than E-1 and E-6 no matter how much usage. I must be doing something wrong.

The PG&E rate comparison "tool" doesn't seem to calculate what the cost would be on E-1 (assuming you're on something other than that, E-9a for me), so it overstates the "savings" on the E9A rate plan for us. The saving grace is that PG&E has a "1 year guarantee" for rate plan switches, so it appears you can choose the previous rate plan and get a ?credit? for the extra charges if your electric vehicle plan doesn't work out.

EV-A vs E-9A, the crossover point seems to be within tier 3 usage, but this greatly depends on how your usage falls into the various periods. This is too simple as the hours for various time periods are different, and there is now a NEW peak time during dinner on the weekends.

www.pev4me.com will calc your w your real data for E-9. Contact them and remind them they need to add the EV rate schedules (effective Aug 1). The EV calcs are a lot simpler as you don't need to allocate usage to tiers.

Better bet - move into Silicon Valley Power, Alameda Power or Sacramento Municipal Utility District - where they pay ~10c/kWH all day.

 

[miimura]

Any comments on how much it costs to install a second meter? PGE website says this:

Second Meter and Panel: Customers who select the EV-B rate will need a second meter and electrical panel. Customers could opt to replace their existing panel with a dual meter panel although this is generally more costly. The electrician will arrange an inspection and obtain a permit from the city and/or county. In addition to the electrician's installation costs for the second panel, PG&E will bill you $100 for the second meter.

So $100 plus install costs, which could be a few hundred I guess? Will have to do some modeling to see what is best for me when they retire E9A.
Ideal solution may be to get second EV!

Typical total costs for installing a second meter are over $2,000. However, it depends a lot on how your electrical service is installed and the space available. PG&E also used to charge for upgrading the conductors between the meter and pole, but I understand there are subsidies available when the upgrade is due to new EV metering. I usually tell people that the money spent on a second meter is better spent toward a PV solar system. Obviously not every situation is conducive to solar, but if you have solar, you generally don't want a second meter because it cannot be offset by the solar.

If you really want to do some good modeling for different rates, check my spreadsheet linked in the thread PG&E E9-A versus EV-A calculator using PG&E downloaded data
It simultaneously calculates energy charges for PG&E E-1, E-6, E-9A, and EV-A based on CSV SmartMeter data downloaded from PG&E MyEnergy.

 

[Big Amps]

Check out EV-A, the electric car rate. After 11:00 pm (or midnight depending on daylight saving time) the rate is 9.7 cents.

 

[Malasada]

Just called PGE to switch from E6 + Smart Rate to EVA. I didn't see EVA as a option when comparing your estimated usage until today, but it seems to make a lot of sense for me due to my 100 mile daily commute and no solar (yet).

As an aside, I just went from E1 to E6 just this past December, and the PGE rep said that if you're switching to the new EVA rate, you can do it inside of 12 months of your last rate change (though once you switch to EVA you're stuck with that for 12 months).

 

[GasDoc]

If you use any medical equipment at home such as asthma nebulizers, CPAP machines, etc. you could qualify for a medical baseline adjustment. This increases the amount of kwh available in each tier and can make E-6 or E-9A more affordable than EV-A.

More information can be found on the webpage here.

 

[miimura]

If you use any medical equipment at home such as asthma nebulizers, CPAP machines, etc. you could qualify for a medical baseline adjustment. This increases the amount of kwh available in each tier and can make E-6 or E-9A more affordable than EV-A.

More information can be found on the webpage here.

E-9 is no longer available for new enrollments as of the commencement of Schedule EV on August 1, 2013.

 

[SFOTurtle]

Just called PGE to switch from E6 + Smart Rate to EVA. I didn't see EVA as a option when comparing your estimated usage until today, but it seems to make a lot of sense for me due to my 100 mile daily commute and no solar (yet).

As an aside, I just went from E1 to E6 just this past December, and the PGE rep said that if you're switching to the new EVA rate, you can do it inside of 12 months of your last rate change (though once you switch to EVA you're stuck with that for 12 months).

Thanks for posting your experience and this data point. I switched to E-6 with Smart Rate in March and was wondering whether to switch to EVA and whether I could do that before next March. I charge a fair bit at work and my commute is only 15 miles or so roundtrip. Even so, I've been crossing into Tier 3 most every month since the tier allowances are so stingy, and the off-peak rates in Tier 3 are really far too high that the Smart Rate savings are largely eaten up.

Edit: After doing the math and realizing that it's just too hard to keep out of tier 3 and 4 on E-6 even when charging a fair bit at work, I'm going to switch to EV-A. But can anyone explain the logic in why Saturday 3 to 7 p.m. would be peak rates on the EV-A plan and not partial peak? That just seems arbitrary and capricous. None of the other TOU plans that I have seen have peak rates on weekend days.

 

[strider]

Edit: After doing the math and realizing that it's just too hard to keep out of tier 3 and 4 on E-6 even when charging a fair bit at work, I'm going to switch to EV-A. But can anyone explain the logic in why Saturday 3 to 7 p.m. would be peak rates on the EV-A plan and not partial peak? That just seems arbitrary and capricous. None of the other TOU plans that I have seen have peak rates on weekend days.

Pure profit grab. They were able to sneak it by the regulators so there it is. Since we're into Tier 5 EV-A is still cheaper for us than E9-A but if I owned my home I would pile on a ton of solar to stay out of the upper tiers. Still cheaper than gas!

 

[miimura]

After doing the math and realizing that it's just too hard to keep out of tier 3 and 4 on E-6 even when charging a fair bit at work, I'm going to switch to EV-A. But can anyone explain the logic in why Saturday 3 to 7 p.m. would be peak rates on the EV-A plan and not partial peak? That just seems arbitrary and capricous. None of the other TOU plans that I have seen have peak rates on weekend days.

While we're complaining about EV rates, Why does Peak time go until 9pm? I do have solar and the difference between E-6 which ends at 7pm and E-9 and EV ending at 9pm makes a big difference in how much net energy I have in the Peak time slot. In June and July this year it was nearly 100kWh difference - ie. E-6 would show -150kWh while E-9 shows -50kWh. That is enough of a difference to pay for all my Off-Peak charging, but instead they make me eat it up with normal household use after we get home from work - at the highest rate. So, it's nearly a wash between E-6 and E-9 during the summer months of high solar generation. In the winter, with much less solar generation and non-tiered pricing, EV will pull ahead.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

While we're complaining about EV rates, Why does Peak time go until 9pm? I do have solar and the difference between E-6 which ends at 7pm and E-9 and EV ending at 9pm makes a big difference in how much net energy I have in the Peak time slot. In June and July this year it was nearly 100kWh difference - ie. E-6 would show -150kWh while E-9 shows -50kWh. That is enough of a difference to pay for all my Off-Peak charging, but instead they make me eat it up with normal household use after we get home from work - at the highest rate. So, it's nearly a wash between E-6 and E-9 during the summer months of high solar generation. In the winter, with much less solar generation and non-tiered pricing, EV will pull ahead.

Find a usage graph.

Heee in Maine peak is 7am to 8pm and if you look a graph it's clear: 7am marks the end of the rapid morning ramp and 8pm marks thebeginning of the evening drop.

 

[miimura]

Find a usage graph.

Heee in Maine peak is 7am to 8pm and if you look a graph it's clear: 7am marks the end of the rapid morning ramp and 8pm marks the beginning of the evening drop.

Okay. I stand corrected. I looked at the Cal ISO chart and the top 25% of load (34.5 to 38 Gigawatts today) happens between 1pm and 9pm with the absolute peak between 4pm and 5pm. So, it seems Schedule EV is justified. The California grid load appeared to be nearly sinusoidal over 24 hours today.