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P85D sighting / test drives
- Thread starter Aargau
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
MarcG
Active Member
0-60 launches were... well... INSANE!!!
My TT did 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, and even with the DSG this felt so much smoother. Unreal!! Can't wait to get mine
My TT did 0-60 in 3.8 seconds, and even with the DSG this felt so much smoother. Unreal!! Can't wait to get mine
basf_audio
Member
I did a test (ride) today in Saint Louis - not able to drive yet. But I have to say - I'm laughing my butt off the entire time. I grinned with my first S85 test drive and ownership. I grinned even more with my P85 test drive and ownership. And now - with this test drive - I'd be rolling on the floorboards laughing with glee if I hadn't been stuck to the back of the seat. Everything that others have posted is absolutely true. Your head spins a little bit. And you really can't breath for short amount of time. It's definitely INSANE!
I mainly wanted to feel the 0-60 and try out the new seats. The seats needed adjustment with the lumbar - but after getting it set right (for me) - they felt pretty good. More bolstering as others have said. I'm concerned about the "wife acceptance" factor and she was really getting into the newer "updated" performance seats that I had in my second MS.
Front motor had a continuous warble to it - not bad at all - just noticeable once you hear it. Kind of like a bird. No balloon squeal like the first MS's had under heavy acceleration. Just pure warp speed sensation.
Frunk had more space removed than I would have expected from reading peoples descriptions. I was thinking only the microwave box section would be removed - but it devours about 2/3 of the space. The other pictures on here show it well.
In the end - it's all of the same goodness of the interior with a mix of laughing gas when you accelerate. It NEVER gets old. You think you're ready for it... but you're not. It just slaps you silly.
Can. Not. Wait. to get my P85D. And then see all this craziness here in the forums about deliveries just disappear. You could probably charge people $1 a punch just to ride in your car.
I mainly wanted to feel the 0-60 and try out the new seats. The seats needed adjustment with the lumbar - but after getting it set right (for me) - they felt pretty good. More bolstering as others have said. I'm concerned about the "wife acceptance" factor and she was really getting into the newer "updated" performance seats that I had in my second MS.
Front motor had a continuous warble to it - not bad at all - just noticeable once you hear it. Kind of like a bird. No balloon squeal like the first MS's had under heavy acceleration. Just pure warp speed sensation.
Frunk had more space removed than I would have expected from reading peoples descriptions. I was thinking only the microwave box section would be removed - but it devours about 2/3 of the space. The other pictures on here show it well.
In the end - it's all of the same goodness of the interior with a mix of laughing gas when you accelerate. It NEVER gets old. You think you're ready for it... but you're not. It just slaps you silly.
Can. Not. Wait. to get my P85D. And then see all this craziness here in the forums about deliveries just disappear.
You could probably charge people $1 a punch just to ride in your car. 
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
3s-a-charm
Active Member
Thank you BASF - great review of your ride. All of these help us who are waiting. I think INSANE mode is the period of time between when you order a P85D and actually get it... I know my family thinks I'm INSANE for the amount of time I'm spending devouring everything P85D online I can get my hands on.
Runarbt
Active Member
Hehehe, my wife is so tired of me talking about the car and checking websites constantly that I fear I have already ruined the car for her. But that's OK, she can drive the e-up instead:tongue:Thank you BASF - great review of your ride. All of these help us who are waiting. I think INSANE mode is the period of time between when you order a P85D and actually get it... I know my family thinks I'm INSANE for the amount of time I'm spending devouring everything P85D online I can get my hands on.
On-topic: thanks to those that have taken pictures and written short reviews. The picture of 480kw on the speedo made my day this morning.
not true - up until early this week they were claiming the same mileage rating as the P85 on the configuration portion of their web site ordering page. Now they have reduced it SIGNIFICANTLY (down to 242 with 21" wheels). What you originally ordered has been downgraded from a range perspective and they havent let anyone know on the order list - you get to find out only if you go and review the new spec published on the build section.
This is not true either. The basis for the range estimate has changed, that is all. If you drive the car at a constant 65mph on a dry 0% incline with no wind on a warm day, with no HVAC, then apply the original range. If you drive the car as per the EPA test, apply the EPA number.
Either way, your (real world) mileage will vary considerably.
This doesnt hold to logic.
If testing was constant across ALL cars then why only the change with the P85D? The fact remains that all things remaining the same, Tesla overstated the original range specs. There was little to no change with the other cars and their published specifications. Therefore, we can only conclude there is a special measurement for the P85D and its been singled out across the offering or they overstated.
Of course mileage will vary but they created the baseline so a consumer would understand what they were purchasing...and then they quietly made a change to that statement.
jerjozwik
Active Member
forgive my igrnoance, but what is C a measurement of? i have seen it here and MANY times over on diyelectriccarforums. i just dont know what dimension of electric cars it is displaying.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Telsa has posted a series of numbers for the various vehicles.
I suspect the first set of numbers (which didn't say how they were produced) were based on 55mph at constant speed. People were comparing these numbers to the EPA numbers and thinking that an S85D would get 30 miles over the S85. Then Tesla provided numbers at 65mph for all the vehicles which narrowed the S85D's range to just 10 miles more than an S85. Finally, they've provided EPA based numbers which sees the S85D equal to the S85 and the P85D losing ground. While this is confusing to the customer and could have been handled better. I do not believe they were overstating the range, I suspect the numbers they posted were all correct given the test conditions. There's a reason why the term "your mileage may vary" is in common usage. Because it really does vary under differing conditions.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Let me just add that 6C is rather high discharge rate for a battery that needs to hold as much energy as possible (driving range).
Batteries capable of discharge rates above ~5C are usually referred to as 'power batteries' i.e. their primary goal is to push out the energy fast (i.e. high power, high C rate),
Battery in MS60 is limited to 3.75C. It has same drive-train as MS85 had lower power because battery power used to be the limiting factor when initially designing it in ~2011. Battery tech improved since then. Tesla could increase capacity and keep the C limit or keep the capacity and up the max discharge rate (i.e. power). Looks like they opted for the second.
Batteries capable of discharge rates above ~5C are usually referred to as 'power batteries' i.e. their primary goal is to push out the energy fast (i.e. high power, high C rate),
Battery in MS60 is limited to 3.75C. It has same drive-train as MS85 had lower power because battery power used to be the limiting factor when initially designing it in ~2011. Battery tech improved since then. Tesla could increase capacity and keep the C limit or keep the capacity and up the max discharge rate (i.e. power). Looks like they opted for the second.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
and those classifications have to do with internal resistance. You can use a capacity battery to drive higher discharge rates but you must deal with the extra heat generated by higher internal resistance.
I'm just glad to hear that draw went up with the PD.
I am also perfectly ok with around town consumption going up when compared to the S85D. I expect the larger motor(s) to have more inertia in addition to higher weight, both of which affect range in stop and go situations. I am very happy that highway range does not suffer as that is when I actually care about range.
You can always find ways to pick at something if you want to be critical. In this case (the PD), I think any objective technical evaluation of what Tesla has accomplished would come up with the conclusion that it is highly unlikely they have accomplished it. The integration of technology and design effort in the car is nothing short of amazing. Smart people doing very good work without interference from incompetent management or brain dead financial types. Anyone in any technical field has got to love that idea.
I'm just glad to hear that draw went up with the PD.
I am also perfectly ok with around town consumption going up when compared to the S85D. I expect the larger motor(s) to have more inertia in addition to higher weight, both of which affect range in stop and go situations. I am very happy that highway range does not suffer as that is when I actually care about range.
You can always find ways to pick at something if you want to be critical. In this case (the PD), I think any objective technical evaluation of what Tesla has accomplished would come up with the conclusion that it is highly unlikely they have accomplished it. The integration of technology and design effort in the car is nothing short of amazing. Smart people doing very good work without interference from incompetent management or brain dead financial types. Anyone in any technical field has got to love that idea.
Here is the rub with this new information: Its not just the change itself, its how it was initially positioned.
Consider there are literally pages of questions in this thread about how they achieve it, and it turns out that they don't. It was likely being overstated in the first place because we know that the other cars have not changed their spec....I don't believe that the EPA centered out the P85D by itself yet the other cars remain the same. So all things being equal in the final analysis (regardless of it being 55, 65, or more real world), they made a mistake in their favor.
My concern in the interim is that we were actually sold a package and now that package and its specifications have changed; this isn't chrome trim or a color change, its a fundamental spec change - that we are paying an $18,000.00 premium. With this new information, the car becomes less useful. Then couple that with some of the other unpublished specs and the fact we aren't buying a blender, and it leaves me with a little bit of concern. There is little to no published specifications on these cars and they are on record until this week saying that efficiency was on par with the dual motor monster. Im still really impressed with the car and its capabilities but when combined with the way this information is trickling out and the lack of published specs, its a little concerning; not enough to change my order; however, concerning nonetheless.
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breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
The EPA hasn't done anything. Tesla did the testing. They did so per the testing specification required by the EPA that that at least partly is written by The Society of Automotive Engineers. I've already posted the research that explains why the P85D is unique above. Between the P85D being worse in the city over the P85+ (with the EPA tests weighting city miles) and the fact that the 21" wheels/tires must be included on the P85D vehicle they tested, while not being included on the S85/P85/P85+ vehicle configuration. It comes out with worse range. That doesn't really mean that what Tesla said is wrong. It just means a particular set of test conditions the P85D doesn't do as well as the S85/P85/P85+.
I don't disagree that this is confusing to the consumer and that Tesla should not have announced the P85D/85D before having the EPA numbers. But confusing doesn't mean deceptive. Tesla clearly realized the confusion with the initial numbers and tried to fix it by making them comparable. Given that the window sticker numbers show more mileage for highway miles, it's clear that most people will actually see an improvement of range when going long distances. Does losing some miles in the city really matter to you?
If it does then I suggest you talk to Tesla. I'm sure they can cancel your order (probably even giving you the deposit back) or converting your order into a different vehicle configuration that will have more range in the city.
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