Opinion requested. P85D

[J.J.]

I have a flawless 2014 P85D. I purchased the vehicle in 2017 with 75K miles. It's been great. A few minor things along the way but nothing crazy.

The other day, I received a "may not start" and "limited power" message.

According to Tesla, an over the air diagnostic has indicated I need a new rear motor to the tune of $7500.

That seem excessive.

No warranty.

Opinions, alternatives, recommendations all appreciated.

 

[dwbv]

I'll say the same thing I said in another thread...

Will $7500 buy you another P85D with the same mileage and condition? If yes, then go buy that P85D for $7500... if not, then pay the $7500 and enjoy your newly fixed P85D for perhaps the next 5-6 years again.

Many will argue the flawed design in that drive unit however $7500 will also buy you the warranty that comes with it.

Good luck.

 

[beatle]

I thought rear LDUs were $6k, but maybe they've gone up. Many have the seals go bad which allows coolant to ruin the inverter inside. Unfortunately this isn't all that rare. Warranty on the replacement should be 4 years.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I'll say the same thing I said in another thread...

Will $7500 buy you another P85D with the same mileage and condition? If yes, then go buy that P85D for $7500... if not, then pay the $7500 and enjoy your newly fixed P85D for perhaps the next 5-6 years again.

Many will argue the flawed design in that drive unit however $7500 will also buy you the warranty that comes with it.

Good luck.

But would you pay $7500 for a repair that could very easily be followed up by a $17-$20K battery replacement or cut your losses?

It could very well happen as the battery is now close to 10 years old, and it's crazy reading the stories of cars going in for the $7500 drive unit replacement only to have Tesla announce after the DU has been replaced that it now immediately needs a new HV battery.

I would cut my losses.

 

[J.J.]

But would you pay $7500 for a repair that could very easily be followed up by a $17-$20K battery replacement or cut your losses?

It could very well happen as the battery is now close to 10 years old, and it's crazy reading the stories of cars going in for the $7500 drive unit replacement only to have Tesla announce after the DU has been replaced that it now immediately needs a new HV battery.

I would cut my losses.

This is my concern as well.

The vehicle is literally bricked in my driveway. I cannot even open the doors.

Seems odd for a motor failure, No?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

This is my concern as well.

The vehicle is literally bricked in my driveway. I cannot even open the doors.

Seems odd for a motor failure, No?

I had an inverter blow and that blew the pyro fuse so there was no HV power to the car at all. The tiny lithium ion LV battery only lasted 10-15 mins before the entire car went completely dark. Of course, this happened while driving, so the car was bricked on the side of the road at midnight waiting hours for a tow. I wish it had happened in my driveway. So no, Tesla's failing more dramatically than an ICE is not unusual.

 

[Videomatic3]

This is my concern as well.

The vehicle is literally bricked in my driveway. I cannot even open the doors.

Seems odd for a motor failure, No?

i was under the impression if the car had dual motors and one went out you could still drive with 1 motor... unless the advertising was a bunch of bullSH*t

 

[brkaus]

This is my concern as well.

The vehicle is literally bricked in my driveway. I cannot even open the doors.

Seems odd for a motor failure, No?

i was under the impression if the car had dual motors and one went out you could still drive with 1 motor... unless the advertising was a bunch of bullSH*t

If the inverter fails with an isolation fault then the contractors won’t close. Eventually the 12v goes dead. Pretty common.

Depending on where you are located, there are also 3rd parties that can rebuild the DU.

 

[dwbv]

But would you pay $7500 for a repair that could very easily be followed up by a $17-$20K battery replacement or cut your losses?

It could very well happen as the battery is now close to 10 years old, and it's crazy reading the stories of cars going in for the $7500 drive unit replacement only to have Tesla announce after the DU has been replaced that it now immediately needs a new HV battery.

I would cut my losses.

I agree that we've read a lot of horror stories of the HV battery going bad unexpectedly however we only hear it because it's coming as bad news. We never hear about the HV batteries that are still sitting in the older legacy MS cars that are still running with 150k+ mileage. It's called cognitive bias. Unfortunately, Tesla won't share the actual empirical numbers to back up any arguments either way. Does it happen?... yes... Will it happen to your car?... maybe or possibly... nobody knows for sure. I would agree that the 100% method of avoiding an HV battery failure is to not have a car with an HV battery to begin with, hence cut your losses.

I still think $7500 for a good-running P85D is worth the risk. My personal opinion is that everyone who owns a Tesla EV (or any EV for that matter) that is out of warranty should have $10-20k parked on the side earmarked with "Tesla Emergency Fund". I know it's not possible or realistic for everyone however as the old saying goes: "you play with expensive toys, expect expensive problems". Don't like it?... don't play.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I agree that we've read a lot of horror stories of the HV battery going bad unexpectedly however we only hear it because it's coming as bad news. We never hear about the HV batteries that are still sitting in the older legacy MS cars that are still running with 150k+ mileage. It's called cognitive bias. Unfortunately, Tesla won't share the actual empirical numbers to back up any arguments either way. Does it happen?... yes... Will it happen to your car?... maybe or possibly... nobody knows for sure. I would agree that the 100% method of avoiding an HV battery failure is to not have a car with an HV battery to begin with, hence cut your losses.

I still think $7500 for a good-running P85D is worth the risk. My personal opinion is that everyone who owns a Tesla EV (or any EV for that matter) that is out of warranty should have $10-20k parked on the side earmarked with "Tesla Emergency Fund". I know it's not possible or realistic for everyone however as the old saying goes: "you play with expensive toys, expect expensive problems". Don't like it?... don't play.

Imagine how many battery and drive unit failures you don't hear about because the majority of the buying public think spending any time on a car enthusiast forum is the stupidest thing they ever heard.

I am huge car guy, and I have owned the exotics like Lambo's and Ferrari's. Those cars established the concept of needing to have a $20K repair fund ready for unexpected problems, or you are stupid to own them.

Isn't it crazy that now if you bought a used Model S daily driver for $25K or in 4-5 years you buy a 9-10 year old Model 3 as daily driver for $15K that you also need to have a $20K+ fund for those run of the mill cars or you are stupid to own the car?

I am in the process of selling my Tesla's and going back to ICE cars because it's clear to me that the world will find out that these batteries generally only last 10 years regardless of BMS, driving habits, charging habits, climate, or maintenance. When the world becomes aware of that, any used EV's will have $2K of value deducted for every year old of the battery. It's going to be an economic and environmental disaster when the sh*t hits the fan. Even low mileage EV's that are in perfect shape otherwise will be totaled by a battery failure.

Think I am nuts. No I am not. Articles are starting to come out, but the EV pushers are trying to distract with mileage, charge cycles, degradation percentages and 8 year warranty discussions. And they like to pretend that the packs can easily be repaired. They can't. Batteries goes go poof with age. It's a fact.

Electric Car Battery Life: Everything You Need to Know

The battery packs of electric vehicles are quite resilient, with the lithium-ion type used in most modern EVs capable of lasting at least a decade before needing replacement.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[airborne spoon]

My LDU went belly up last month the price they are quoting you is for a new motor, a rebuild one is much cheaper and it has the exact same warranty. They offered me both and I was like cheaper with the same warranty why the hell not go for it. Also 4 year/50k miles is the warranty BTW.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

i was under the impression if the car had dual motors and one went out you could still drive with 1 motor... unless the advertising was a bunch of bullSH*t

I had a rear inverter fail recently on a 2023 Model S and the failure caused the main pyro fuse to blow which cuts off all HV power to the entire car. It doesn't need to be this way to still be safe, but it saves a few bucks on each car in exchange for quietly removing that lie from their website.

Instead of designing a redundant system that can run on either motor which would be statistically very unlikely to have both inverters fail at the same time, they designed a system that will have a complete and catastrophic failure if any inverter blows. So if you have a dual motor, you are twice as likely as a single motor Tesla to endanger your life, your family lives, and other people lives when your entire car loses all power at any time on the road. If you have a Plaid with 3 motors, you statistically have 3 times the chance of that happening. If the Cybertruck is the same design and they have a quad motor, you will have 4 times the chance of that happening. Wonderful.

 

[beatle]

I had a rear inverter fail recently on a 2023 Model S and the failure caused the main pyro fuse to blow which cuts off all HV power to the entire car. It doesn't need to be this way to still be safe, but it saves a few bucks on each car in exchange for quietly removing that lie from their website.

Instead of designing a redundant system that can run on either motor which would be statistically very unlikely to have both inverters fail at the same time, they designed a system that will have a complete and catastrophic failure if any inverter blows. So if you have a dual motor, you are twice as likely as a single motor Tesla to endanger your life, your family lives, and other people lives when your entire car loses all power at any time on the road. If you have a Plaid with 3 motors, you statistically have 3 times the chance of that happening. If the Cybertruck is the same design and they have a quad motor, you will have 4 times the chance of that happening. Wonderful.

I don't think it's as trivial as you say to simply not blow the pyro fuse in the case of an inverter failure or otherwise over current event. This video goes into a lot of good detail about the fuse:

What's the solution that doesn't blow the fuse and brick the car? Are other mujlti-motor EVs able to limp along when a motor and/or inverter is inoperable?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I don't think it's as trivial as you say to simply not blow the pyro fuse in the case of an inverter failure or otherwise over current event. This video goes into a lot of good detail about the fuse:

What's the solution that doesn't blow the fuse and brick the car? Are other mujlti-motor EVs able to limp along when a motor and/or inverter is inoperable?

If you use your hair dryer and a space heater on the same outlet in your house, does the main breaker blow and cut power off to your entire house or apartment complex?

That’s your answer.

 

[beatle]

So just use a household breaker? Got it. My hair dryer and space heater aren't drawing over 1500A.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

So just use a household breaker? Got it. My hair dryer and space heater aren't drawing over 1500A.

So yoy don’t understand electricity. Got it. You should have sat this one out.

 

[Videomatic3]

If you use your hair dryer and a space heater on the same outlet in your house, does the main breaker blow and cut power off to your entire house or apartment complex?

That’s your answer.

Just the breaker to the outlets on the one wall. I got tired of my entire floor going out when the hair dryer was on and the microwave was on, so I did some upgrades. Maximum 3 outlets per breaker.
I have 14 breakers for 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms on my second floor. Haven't changed the first floor, but there's only 2 breakers for that, it will change to a whole lot more

 

[dwbv]

Imagine how many battery and drive unit failures you don't hear about because the majority of the buying public think spending any time on a car enthusiast forum is the stupidest thing they ever heard.

I don't disagree. My statement is that only Tesla knows for sure the failure rate and they're not gonna share anytime soon. What we see out here is all anecdotal to what we see, read, and/or hear. Our own cognitive bias will shift our viewpoint to what suits our situation best. If you've been through a battery failure, you will warn everyone. If you've never had a battery failure, you will encourage everyone.

I am huge car guy, and I have owned the exotics like Lambo's and Ferrari's. Those cars established the concept of needing to have a $20K repair fund ready for unexpected problems, or you are stupid to own them.

Isn't it crazy that now if you bought a used Model S daily driver for $25K or in 4-5 years you buy a 9-10 year old Model 3 as daily driver for $15K that you also need to have a $20K+ fund for those run of the mill cars or you are stupid to own the car?

This is not crazy. As newer cars come out with newer technology, it will only get harder and harder for the DIYers to work on their own cars. I have family who have later model year hybrids and when the electrical system starts having issues, it goes straight to the dealer (just like a Tesla would). Warranty or not, it's going to the dealer. It's part of life and part of growth. Change can be good but also at the cost of bad. Even new technology that goes into ICE vehicles that are not electrical can and will cause issues.

I'm firm on what I've said prior: "EVs are not better or worse than ICE cars, you're just trading ICE problems for EV problems when you switch over"

I am in the process of selling my Tesla's and going back to ICE cars because it's clear to me that the world will find out that these batteries generally only last 10 years regardless of BMS, driving habits, charging habits, climate, or maintenance. When the world becomes aware of that, any used EV's will have $2K of value deducted for every year old of the battery. It's going to be an economic and environmental disaster when the sh*t hits the fan. Even low mileage EV's that are in perfect shape otherwise will be totaled by a battery failure.

Think I am nuts. No I am not. Articles are starting to come out, but the EV pushers are trying to distract with mileage, charge cycles, degradation percentages and 8 year warranty discussions. And they like to pretend that the packs can easily be repaired. They can't. Batteries goes go poof with age. It's a fact.

Electric Car Battery Life: Everything You Need to Know

The battery packs of electric vehicles are quite resilient, with the lithium-ion type used in most modern EVs capable of lasting at least a decade before needing replacement.

www.caranddriver.com

I think battery technology is getter better (and maybe cheaper?) as well as power efficiency within the EVs themselves but we are still a long ways to go. It is normal for the early adopters to feel the agony and pain of newer technology. It's part of the process meaning that early adopters are part of the experiment to learn from to ensure that the future can become better and better. Don't want to be a part of that? Don't buy an EV, just grab some popcorn and enjoy the show from the outside.

 

[beatle]

So yoy don’t understand electricity. Got it. You should have sat this one out.

If you didn't know how to respond to the original questions you shouldn't have bothered wasting everyone's time.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

If you didn't know how to respond to the original questions you shouldn't have bothered wasting everyone's time.

I don't know how to respond to smart ass replies. Sorry.