Old Options vs New on P85

[yobigd20]

Lighting package takes what was previously included with the P85 and adds two rear passenger "puddle" lights under the front seats to illuminate the rear passenger floor area.
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Proof that Tesla folks are getting everything wrong and inconsistent between who you talk to. My vin is 05837, built in Feb picked up march 6th and I have the puddle lights. There is nothing "new" in the lighting package. They just want you to pay $1000 for what was previously included free.

Personally I want to find the truth out about the audio system. 1) Is it the same? 2) Is it a software driver update only? 3) Did they add one more speaker? 4) Are they now using name brand well known off the shelf speakers instead of custom built in house?

So far what I've seen on these forums are all 4 of those responses told to them "by Tesla employees." Who knows what the truth is until we have an official statement from Tesla.

 

[ModelS8794]

Apparently there's at least another speaker, which implies there are other changes IMHO. There are conflicting reports out of Tesla, it "sounds" like.

This is inaccurate. When I purchased in January I asked them specifically about the audio setup and they sent me this mockup of the sound studio option, which shows 12 speakers:

 

[earlyretirement]

This is inaccurate. When I purchased in January I asked them specifically about the audio setup and they sent me this mockup of the sound studio option, which shows 12 speakers:

View attachment 27628

Thanks for taking the time to post that. Does anyone have the standard diagram of the basic audio package and location of the speakers and how many of them?

 

[ModelS8794]

Thanks for taking the time to post that. Does anyone have the standard diagram of the basic audio package and location of the speakers and how many of them?

this was the standard setup as of that same January period when I purchased.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I'm SO glad I didn't switch over to the new pricing scheme just to get the parking sensors and fog lights. In order to get the parking sensors and fog lights without changing my old price, I would have to give up Alcantara, leather, performance seats, CF spoiler, CF décor, sound system and interior lighting. For some the sacrifice is worth it, but on a purely dollars and sense basis it does not compute. My particular configuration went up by $6,850 for basically the same car.

 

[kendallpb]

This is inaccurate. When I purchased in January I asked them specifically about the audio setup and they sent me this mockup of the sound studio option, which shows 12 speakers:

Thanks for the correction; I should've known better than to overstate as I did. I should've said "it sounds like possibly maybe there might be." (blush)

 

[Mayhemm]

Basically, P85s were by far the hardest hit by these changes. Nearly all the previously-included features were stripped out, making a comparable vehicle much more expensive under the new scheme.

However, if you were interested in a 60 or S85, you actually didn't make out too badly. Many options reserved for P85s are now available and since they weren't included before, you aren't out anything if you don't get them.

Unfortunately, I was getting a P85 so my config increased by about $7800.

 

[ModelS8794]

Musk has noted on the last two earnings calls (and elsewhere in interviews) that they are seeing much higher uptake of P85 than they initially expected. It is simple enough to extrapolate from that, that Tesla believes the P85 pricing was suboptimal, and this resetting of options prices and unbundling of P85 option components sets Tesla up for a more optimal sales and margin mix than they had in the past. It is indeed unfortunate for those on the bubble who feel the sting most acutely (because they can clearly see the before and after), but the notion that upgraded sound system for $2500 or alcantara headliners for $1500 are somehow absurd or out of line with competitors, is simply not substantiated by the facts. I mean, I saw a Maserati Granturismo with a sticker today at the car wash - they wanted $450 for contrasting stitching on their leather seats, and another $625 to stitch the Maserati Trident onto the headrests and of course $1750 for the alcantara headliner. BMW 5-series upgrades your stereo for $875, or $4500 for the Bang & Olufsen stereo package. Porsche upgrades your stereo for $1990, but wants another $1120 for SiriusXM, so $3110 total. Plus $1990 for the alcantara headliner on the porsche.

Etc Etc Etc. Luxury cars are expensive, if you want exactly what you want. Ya know?

 

[Mayhemm]

Agreed. Tesla doesn't quite rape you as badly with its options as its competitors do. But they're a lot closer to doing it than they were a week ago. And is that a practice they really want to emulate as a company?

IMO, just serves to highlight what a deal the P85 was before.

 

[swegman]

I received a P85 in early March and a second P85 in late March. The first P85 included tan nappa leather on the doors and lower front dash, and included puddle lights. The second P85 was produced without the alcantara headliner and fake leather on the lower front dash, but did include the puddle lights. Tesla then replaced the headliner with alcantara and replaced the fake leather on the lower front dash with nappa leather matching the seats. Both cars were delivered with nappa leather on the doors. At least the front doors. Never checked the back doors; will have to check this.

 

[CalDreamin]

Bundling features into the P85 base price appeals to some, but other buyers don't want it. Clearly there are some who do not want leather, even some who strongly object to leather, like Leilani. And there are some customers who were reportedly allergic to alcantara. And others don't like the red piping on the leather seats. And so on. It makes sense to unbundle at least some of the features that were formerly part of the P85 base price, reduce the base price, and give customers the opportunity to select options a la carte if they wish to do so.

 

[Mayhemm]

I guess what I object to is not Tesla's un-bundling of the standard equipment of the P85, but them not lowering the base price to compensate for the removed features.

IMO, it should not cost substantially more to build an old-style P85 configuration under the new scheme than it did under the old one. However, depending on who you talk to and their config, the price for the same P85 went up between $5000 and $15,000. This is what I find unacceptable. When's the last time anyone heard of a car increasing $15K in price between model years?

If Tesla wants to make more on their options, fine. But they should try to meet customers in the middle. Lower the base cost by half the price of the new options. People who want all the options they had before will be mollified (for the most part) and people who don't want the old options will actually come out ahead.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I guess what I object to is not Tesla's un-bundling of the standard equipment of the P85, but them not lowering the base price to compensate for the removed features.

IMO, it should not cost substantially more to build an old-style P85 configuration under the new scheme than it did under the old one. However, depending on who you talk to and their config, the price for the same P85 went up between $5000 and $15,000. This is what I find unacceptable. When's the last time anyone heard of a car increasing $15K in price between model years?

If Tesla wants to make more on their options, fine. But they should try to meet customers in the middle. Lower the base cost by half the price of the new options. People who want all the options they had before will be mollified (for the most part) and people who don't want the old options will actually come out ahead.

First of all, I don't believe there has been any change in "model years". I didn't think Tesla differentiated model years with the Model S. None of us enjoys price increases, but many of us can sympathize with Tesla because they have a business to run and need to hit profitability in the next 1-2 quarters if they are to survive over the longer term. So Tesla has different considerations and judging by the response, I don't think they are going to have any trouble selling more cars. In fact, the Model S became cheaper for those who do not want a lot of options or upgrades, so the cost of entry was lowered. The ones who are really footing the bill are those with blinged out vehicles, but then those people can probably afford to subsidize Tesla.

 

[Colasec]

I guess what I object to is not Tesla's un-bundling of the standard equipment of the P85, but them not lowering the base price to compensate for the removed features.

Didn't the base price of the P85 drop $5K? That might make what is most awesome about the P85 (its incredible power, of course) more accessible. At least it does to me should I have an opportunity to upgrade at some point.

 

[yobigd20]

I guess what I object to is not Tesla's un-bundling of the standard equipment of the P85, but them not lowering the base price to compensate for the removed features.

IMO, it should not cost substantially more to build an old-style P85 configuration under the new scheme than it did under the old one. However, depending on who you talk to and their config, the price for the same P85 went up between $5000 and $15,000. This is what I find unacceptable. When's the last time anyone heard of a car increasing $15K in price between model years?

If Tesla wants to make more on their options, fine. But they should try to meet customers in the middle. Lower the base cost by half the price of the new options. People who want all the options they had before will be mollified (for the most part) and people who don't want the old options will actually come out ahead.

They did lower the "base price" of the P85. It used to be $94,900, but now the "base price" of the P85 is $89,900. So they lowered the price by $5000 but now you get less features by default. However, if you do an apple to apples comparison to what was "included" a few weeks ago that you now have to pay for individually:

• $1500 Alcantara Headliner
• $1000 Premium Interior Lighting
• $2250 for the Air suspension
• $1500 spoiler
• $1500 leather seats
• $1000 performance piping with Alcantara Accents
• $650 decor
• -$250 cheaper tech package adjustment
  • = $9150 in options to match the same features (note: i am not factoring in that $1000 in their price diff between the Goodyears and Michelins)

But since the base price of the P85 is now $5000 cheaper, the REAL difference is only $4150.

However, other non-included options got more expensive. If you are adding any of the following options, increase that $4150 difference in price by the appropriate amount:

• +$1000 panoramic roof
• +$1000 for 21" wheels
• +$1550 sound studio a.k.a. the new "ultra high fidelity sound"
• +$1000 rear facing seats
  • = $4550 additional difference if you add these 4 options for an apples-to-apples comparison

It is worth noting that if you did *not* want any of the new "unpackaged" options above, technically you could subtract that amount, And actually you could come out cheaper and saving $5000 with the new pricing if you don't add any options (or actually saving $6250+++ and more when factoring in the cheaper tech package and Michelin tires and the fact that Xenon lights and HD camera is now standard) .

Totally perspective and options preference. The other sucky part for new P85 buyers is that if you bought last year in 2012, the $4500 21" wheels were free then, fog lights were included, and the base price for all models was $2500 cheaper. So if you add those differences in then yeah, something like $4150 price diff in options + $1000 roof + $1550 sound + $1000 seats + $4500 free 21" wheels + $500 fog lights + $2500 price increase = a tricked out P85 is ~$15200 more expensive now than it was 9 months ago in an apples to apples comparison (excluding newly released options)

I didn't double check my math but in general those numbers should be around the right numbers in difference. Extended Warranty went up about $1500 too lol so add that price in as well.

 

[Mayhemm]

First of all, I don't believe there has been any change in "model years". I didn't think Tesla differentiated model years with the Model S....In fact, the Model S became cheaper for those who do not want a lot of options or upgrades, so the cost of entry was lowered. The ones who are really footing the bill are those with blinged out vehicles, but then those people can probably afford to subsidize Tesla.

I didn't mean to come across so literal with the model year thing, as I know Tesla doesn't do traditional model years with their cars (even the Roadster was released in versions rather than years). However, the end-of-summer time frame as well as the major restructuring of the design studio, pricing, and available options sure make this seem like a new "year" if there even was one.

I guess I'm just miffed that the P85 buyers seem to be hardest hit by these changes and many assume that they can simply afford to pay a bit more, like it was no big deal. Well, I'm a P85 buyer, and while I've made the $120K budget work for me, that doesn't mean that I'm not stretching myself to do so, or that it doesn't make a difference to me that the $120K just became $130K with nothing to show for it. I've learned from other threads not to expect much sympathy for my plight, though.

They did lower the "base price" of the P85. It used to be $94,900, but now the "base price" of the P85 is $89,900. So they lowered the price by $5000 but now you get less features by default.

Sorry, you're correct. I guess I was just seeing the P85 as still being over $100K here in Canada like it was before. However, even with that slight reduction there is still a significant premium to load it up with the formerly-standard equipment now as compared to back in July, as you pointed out.

 

[Colasec]

@yobigd20 That's a good summary, though it does highlight the increases.

For what it's worth, if I was comfortable spending the money, I'd get exactly the same config as my current 60, except with the P85 base (and maybe MC red). Ever since I ordered the car, I've been planning/hoping to exercise the buyback after three years and move up to a P85.

That black or MC red P85/leather/piano/pano/tech only went up $750 (if I can do math).

 

[Mayhemm]

That black or MC red P85/leather/piano/pano/tech only went up $750 (if I can do math).

I assume that is with standard leather, not "performance" leather?

 

[Colasec]

I assume that is with standard leather, not "performance" leather?

Yes. I never liked the Alcantra bits or that red piping in the first place.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I guess I'm just miffed that the P85 buyers seem to be hardest hit by these changes and many assume that they can simply afford to pay a bit more, like it was no big deal. Well, I'm a P85 buyer, and while I've made the $120K budget work for me, that doesn't mean that I'm not stretching myself to do so, or that it doesn't make a difference to me that the $120K just became $130K with nothing to show for it. I've learned from other threads not to expect much sympathy for my plight, though.

I certainly empathize, as I am one of those buyers who was just going into production as this whole changeover happened. I was initially miffed as well - why can't they just add the $500 parking sensors? However, I can also understand Tesla's viewpoint that they need to treat their customers equally - stick with the old pricing/packages or move up to the new model. From a production standpoint, that is also the most streamlined way of doing things.

I am getting exactly what I ordered, plus I was given an opportunity to move to the new model (at higher cost). I think the choices Tesla offered did not make everyone happy, but at least they offered a choice. My order was locked in and in production when this happened, so I'm quite satisfied (now, after the emotions have died down) that Tesla gave me the same opportunity as everyone else.