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October 16 Automotive News

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Why is Tesla struggling with the Model 3?

Welding woes may be the bottleneck

October 16, 2017 @ 12:01 am
Katie Burke

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Tesla Model S cars, which experts say require less welding than the Model 3s, are assembled in Fremont, Calif.

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What's behind Tesla's manufacturing woes? It could be something as simple as steel.

Based on details in a Wall Street Journal report and in a video of the production line posted on Twitter by Tesla CEO Elon Musk, experts say the electric vehicle maker appears to be struggling with welding together a mostly steel vehicle, as opposed to the primarily aluminum bodies of the Model S and Model X.

The company fell short of its third-quarter production target for the Model 3 — the lower-cost vehicle intended to mark Tesla's entry into the mass market.

With an influx of competitive EVs on the horizon, Tesla must iron out its manufacturing problems in the next few months or risk losing its competitive edge before the Model 3 reaches a larger audience.

"Before, there was only Tesla. Now, there's going to be dozens of alternatives," said Ron Harbour, a manufacturing consultant at Oliver Wyman. "They're going to have to get really efficient at manufacturing. They have to be cost competitive and price competitive to stay in the business."

Sparks flying

Details in the Oct. 6 Wall Street Journal report suggest the delay may stem from Tesla's inability to get the Model 3 production line up and running. The report said the Model 3 assembly line was still being built as late as September, while employees put together cars in a separate area of the factory.

The Model 3's aluminum and steel body requires more welding rather than the adhesive and rivets in aluminum bodies, experts say.

Harbour described the difference between the body of the Model 3 and those of the Model S and Model X as "partly cloudy vs. partly sunny." The change in materials would require processes new to Tesla.

"There's a big difference there. They haven't been doing a lot of spot welding on the first two vehicles because they're all aluminum," Harbour said. "The learning curve is pretty steep."

After the Journal report, Musk tweeted a of the Model 3 production line, which was operating at one-tenth of its potential speed. In the video, sparks fly as two robotic arms assemble parts of the vehicle frame. He followed with another on Wednesday, Oct. 11, showing body panel stamping at full speed.

"Resistance welding should make a little smoke, but when you see stuff popping out like that, that's called expulsion," automotive manufacturing consultant Michael Tracy of Agile Group in Howell, Mich., said of the first video. "It's symptomatic of weld spots getting too hot because they're poorly planned, or in this case, the metal not being pulled all the way together."

Poor welds can increase the damage to a vehicle in an accident, and can lead to rattling and squeaking as the car ages, Tracy said.

‘Production hell'

In its third-quarter sales report, Tesla said it built 260 Model 3s, a number "less than anticipated due to production bottlenecks." The automaker had targeted output of 1,500 cars in the third quarter, with production of 20,000 vehicles per month by December. By sometime next year, Tesla expects to build 10,000 vehicles a week.

"We are deep in production hell," Musk tweeted after announcing that the unveiling of a Tesla semitruck would be delayed to November so the company could focus on the bottlenecks.

A spokesman for Tesla issued a statement saying that the Model 3 is being built on a fully installed production line that is increasing in automation.

"As we've always acknowledged, it will take time to fine-tune the line for higher volumes, but as we have also said, there are no fundamental issues with Model 3 production or its supply chain, and we are confident in addressing the manufacturing bottleneck issues in the near-term," the statement read. "There's a reason it's called production hell."

Tracy said slowed assembly lines do little to prove production is running smoothly because lines perform differently when running at full speed.

"At this point, you would only be running it slow if you were having troubles and you were afraid the welds you were going to make weren't going to be good," Tracy said. "It has to be able to run at rate for acceptance testing."

The types of problems Tesla is dealing with are normally worked out long before the assembly line is expected to be working at capacity, Harbour said.

"This is something a plant typically goes through four to six months in advance of a production launch," Harbour said. "This raises the question: 'Is the expertise there?'"

Mark Platshon, managing director of Icebreaker Ventures, said he sees the slow production ramp-up as a sign Tesla is ensuring that everything is working before it hits the mass market.

"Given the number of new parts, the multilevel supply chain and the new automation at the factory being debugged, I am not surprised by the slow ramp," wrote Platshon, an early Tesla investor, in an email. "They are being careful to get it right before shipping a lot."

No matter the cause for the production delays, Tesla has a tight window to ramp up Model 3 production before luxury competitors such as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo Cars introduce more electric offerings.

The Model 3 is expected by many industry watchers to bring about Tesla's "iPhone moment," when a new product is shown to have revolutionary potential, as Apple's iPhone had in the mobile phone industry. But the more competitive products become available, the less revolutionary the affordable EV appears.

"The Model 3 ramp could be dragged into the second half of 2018 or even 2019, when the competitive threat will likely become more imminent," wrote Barclays analyst Brian Johnson in a note to investors. "And in the face of increased competition, the 'iPhone moment' appears less certain."

Since July, automakers have been one-upping each other on plans to electrify their lineups. Volvo said it would introduce only electrified vehicles starting in 2019. Jaguar Land Rover said it would offer electrified versions of all of its vehicles by 2020. BMW expects to be able to mass-produce EVs by 2020, offering 12 models by 2025. Mercedes said it will electrify its lineup by 2022.

Detroit also has been turning its attention to electrification. Ford Motor Co. plans to introduce 13 electrified vehicles in the next five years, including a crossover with 300 miles of range. General Motors introduced the Chevrolet Bolt last year, with at least 20 all-electric or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles coming by 2023 — two such vehicles will be introduced in the next 18 months.

Ending credits

In addition to approaching competition, Tesla is close to running out of federal tax incentives, which can shave $7,500 off the price of an EV. The credits begin to phase out once an automaker has sold 200,000 EVs. In July, Edmunds estimated Tesla had about 79,000 credits left.

If the credits run out on sales of the Model S and Model X before the Model 3 reaches full production, Tesla could lose its lower-budget buyers to growing competition, Tracy said.

Yet Tesla has succeeded in growing and maintaining a loyal customer base since its founding nearly 15 years ago — as shown by the 455,000 Model 3 deposits the company reported in August. The slow production ramp could be another bump in what has been a consistently bumpy road for the company.

"They will solve all these niggling problems," Platshon wrote. "I suspect very few of the early preorder customers care if their car is a month or three months later than hoped."

You can reach Katie Burke at [email protected] -- Follow Katie on Twitter: @KatieGBurke
 
I don't know that anyone is claiming the sky is falling but there's little doubt at this point that Tesla is quite a ways behind where they said they would be.

Ya and wondering how long it is going to take them to sort these problems out. Tesla has been pretty quiet about the case of these setbacks. See lots of speculation but not much from Tesla. Thinking it would be in Tesla's best interest to say what is going on. Lots of speculation especially with the recent layoffs.
 
Ya and wondering how long it is going to take them to sort these problems out. Tesla has been pretty quiet about the case of these setbacks. See lots of speculation but not much from Tesla. Thinking it would be in Tesla's best interest to say what is going on. Lots of speculation especially with the recent layoffs.

After meeting with Tesla executives Oppenheimer funds says that Tesla is blaming suppliers, including one supplier who they have had to replace with an in-house production effort.

Tesla Model 3 Production Problems Tied to Suppliers

I understand that this forum is the #1 cheerleading HQ for all things Tesla but these delays are looking pretty bad considering it's Tesla's 3rd major vehicle launch.

They are clearly not handling the migration from smaller production lines to large-scale production very well.

For the first time ever I'm actually skeptical I will get my car before my current lease is up... in September of next year.
 
My inner conspiracy theorist wonders if this delay is Elon's way of pushing a few more people to Model S while also preserving the full federal tax credit for S & X buyers as a purchase incentive/reason to buy. I sure hope that's not the case since I won't be buying a 3 without a guarantee of receiving the full tax credit.
 
My inner conspiracy theorist wonders if this delay is Elon's way of pushing a few more people to Model S while also preserving the full federal tax credit for S & X buyers as a purchase incentive/reason to buy. I sure hope that's not the case since I won't be buying a 3 without a guarantee of receiving the full tax credit.

People think I'm a hardass on Tesla but I'm not. I'm a pragmatist.

Other auto makers don't announce a new car is "in production" and then months later confess they've only built a handful of them.

At this point it's looking like it will be nearly six months from "production launch" to the car being built in any real numbers.

If GM, VAG, BMW did this they would be spitted and roasted. Tesla gets an unbelievable amount of slack on this stuff compared to the rest of the automotive industry.
 
My inner conspiracy theorist wonders
Everything I hear directly from people who works at Tesla makes me pretty sure sure they are trying their darndest to get the line right, and the people that are working hard on it are also encouraged by their own cars coming out; even if it adds a lot if pressure for the company to maintain morale to meet expectations it set with employees.
 
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Reactions: DR61 and 206er
I don't care (too much) if my car is 1 or 3 months late, but I do care if the ramp takes so long that the S & X models eat up enough credits that I won't get the full $7,500

Actually, the chances of that are very low if you are in the first 50% of U.S. buyers. The S/X/Roadsters (sold since Jan 1, 2010) combined likely won't cross over the 200,000 sold in the U.S. mark until Q3, 2018 without an appreciable number of Model 3s. At that point, the credit sunsets for that quarter and the next.

The real issue is the production rate of the Model 3 once Tesla does enter the sunset period, whether it be Q1, Q2, or Q3 next year. At 80% of their 5k/week end of 2017 target rate which would be 4,000 vehicles/week, that's about 45,000 vehicles a quarter. That's 90,000 Model 3's for U.S. customers just during the sunset quarters. Of course, they are looking to expand production to 10,000/week in 2018.

A more plausible scenario with a delayed ramp looks like: 12,000 to 15,000 Model 3's made in 2017. Exit Q4 with 4,000/week production rate. Achieve 5,000/week sometime in Q1, 2018. Cross over 200,000 sold in the U.S. at the beginning of Q2, 2018. Possibly ship more vehicles overseas to make that so. Enter Q2, 2018 at 5,000. Achieve 7,000/week in Q3, 2018. So then it looks like:

2017: 12,000
2018 Q1: 44,000
2018 Q2: 55,000 <- start sunset
2018 Q3: 77,000

So the total number would then be 188,000 Model 3's with the full tax credit. Assuming the 475,000 or so reservation holders are 50% U.S., that's 237,500 buyers. Of that, almost 80% get the full tax credit.

There are additional scenarios for Q3 cross over, and that likely results in higher number of people getting full tax credit because of the higher rate of production by then if the s-curve is very delayed. It likely involves shipping Model 3's overseas, but very antsy Model 3 buyers.

It would almost make sense to ship Model 3's overseas until they hit near the 10k/week production rate. Then the two sunset quarters would be 220,000 or so vehicles, or almost everyone in line from the U.S. right now.
 
People think I'm a hardass on Tesla but I'm not. I'm a pragmatist.

Other auto makers don't announce a new car is "in production" and then months later confess they've only built a handful of them.

At this point it's looking like it will be nearly six months from "production launch" to the car being built in any real numbers.

If GM, VAG, BMW did this they would be spitted and roasted. Tesla gets an unbelievable amount of slack on this stuff compared to the rest of the automotive industry.

All, true, but it's a testament to the cars they make that people are willing to wait anyway. I have not seen a confirmed car from any other company being released in the next 2-3 years that interests me in the slightest (basically I have only ever bought sports sedans, and after the S I'm never going back to an ICE car). My only choice is between keeping my current S, buying a new S or waiting for the 3. I'm disappointed that the launch is looking more and more like a repeat of the X launch. The S launch was pretty much the same way, but that was more understandable, since they were making their first complete car. The X launch was a bungle, but I hoped they had learned their lesson this time.

Launch delays aren't as important to me as how much I will like the car when I get it, though.
 
All, true, but it's a testament to the cars they make that people are willing to wait anyway. I have not seen a confirmed car from any other company being released in the next 2-3 years that interests me in the slightest (basically I have only ever bought sports sedans, and after the S I'm never going back to an ICE car). My only choice is between keeping my current S, buying a new S or waiting for the 3. I'm disappointed that the launch is looking more and more like a repeat of the X launch. The S launch was pretty much the same way, but that was more understandable, since they were making their first complete car. The X launch was a bungle, but I hoped they had learned their lesson this time.

Launch delays aren't as important to me as how much I will like the car when I get it, though.

I budgeted an enormous amount of time into my current lease anticipating this kind of thing from Tesla. Honestly a month ago I was more concerned that I would get the car so early that it would be hard to figure out how to dispose of my current lease and whether I should delay the Tesla delivery to the latest window that would still net me the tax credit.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if I'll get the car in time for the end of my lease, and if there will be any tax credit left. On the plus side, if I'm delayed to the point that I won't get the full credit then it makes the choice of AWD easier and it lets them sort more of the problems out.

Some people are buying the Tesla for cool technology. Others are buying the Tesla because of green energy. Most people are probably buying for a combination of things.

I'm buying because it's cool... and in AWD trim would be an electric that is at least as enjoyable to drive as my current car... I hope anyways.

On the other hand I'm not on a crusade to not burn gasoline. There are other good cars out there too. BMW new 3 series should be released next year and will have a lot of technical innovation as well.

The Oppenheimer article pointing out that those pre-ordering won't wait forever aren't just blowing smoke. Even for those on a crusade to drive electric other options will begin materializing in the next 12-18 months. If their order with Tesla gets pushed out far enough they will jump ship... especially if Tesla tax credits are exhausted but they can get $7500 off of MSRP from another automaker... and one that negotiates on their cars to boot (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Toyota, GM).

It will be interesting to see what the pre-order situation looks like Q1-Q2 of next year as reality sets in.

The Model X is a good comparison as it appears to have a similarly bumpy launch. However the Model X was a pretty low volume car with pre-orders in the thousands, not the hundreds of thousands. Tesla has repeatedly stated that they've got things down and have multiple suppliers of parts to prevent a single supplier failure from derailing things but it appears that might be exactly what has happened.

Again.

For like the 3rd time.
 
People think I'm a hardass on Tesla but I'm not. I'm a pragmatist.

Other auto makers don't announce a new car is "in production" and then months later confess they've only built a handful of them.

At this point it's looking like it will be nearly six months from "production launch" to the car being built in any real numbers.

If GM, VAG, BMW did this they would be spitted and roasted. Tesla gets an unbelievable amount of slack on this stuff compared to the rest of the automotive industry.
Well, Tesla is the only manufacturer who started out with an intention to shift drivers away from ICE (and actively destroying the planet), so there's that.

That said, I'm still frustrated by the delay since I want my Model 3 yesterday, lol.
 
Tesla has repeatedly stated that they've got things down and have multiple suppliers of parts to prevent a single supplier failure from derailing things...
When I run that sentence through my EDFC (Elon Distortion Field Clarifier), it comes out like this:
"I HOPE we've got things down and have multiple suppliers of parts to prevent a single supplier failure from derailing things."
Robin
 
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Actually, the chances of that are very low if you are in the first 50% of U.S. buyers. The S/X/Roadsters (sold since Jan 1, 2010) combined likely won't cross over the 200,000 sold in the U.S. mark until Q3, 2018 without an appreciable number of Model 3s. At that point, the credit sunsets for that quarter and the next.

The real issue is the production rate of the Model 3 once Tesla does enter the sunset period, whether it be Q1, Q2, or Q3 next year. At 80% of their 5k/week end of 2017 target rate which would be 4,000 vehicles/week, that's about 45,000 vehicles a quarter. That's 90,000 Model 3's for U.S. customers just during the sunset quarters. Of course, they are looking to expand production to 10,000/week in 2018.

A more plausible scenario with a delayed ramp looks like: 12,000 to 15,000 Model 3's made in 2017. Exit Q4 with 4,000/week production rate. Achieve 5,000/week sometime in Q1, 2018. Cross over 200,000 sold in the U.S. at the beginning of Q2, 2018. Possibly ship more vehicles overseas to make that so. Enter Q2, 2018 at 5,000. Achieve 7,000/week in Q3, 2018. So then it looks like:

2017: 12,000
2018 Q1: 44,000
2018 Q2: 55,000 <- start sunset
2018 Q3: 77,000

So the total number would then be 188,000 Model 3's with the full tax credit. Assuming the 475,000 or so reservation holders are 50% U.S., that's 237,500 buyers. Of that, almost 80% get the full tax credit.

There are additional scenarios for Q3 cross over, and that likely results in higher number of people getting full tax credit because of the higher rate of production by then if the s-curve is very delayed. It likely involves shipping Model 3's overseas, but very antsy Model 3 buyers.

It would almost make sense to ship Model 3's overseas until they hit near the 10k/week production rate. Then the two sunset quarters would be 220,000 or so vehicles, or almost everyone in line from the U.S. right now.

Hard to believe that they will deliver 12,000-15,000 M3 in 2017 when to date they've delivered well under 1,000. That would be an explosive ramp-up in production with 10 weeks left in the quarter but I guess we will see.
 
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I budgeted an enormous amount of time into my current lease anticipating this kind of thing from Tesla. Honestly a month ago I was more concerned that I would get the car so early that it would be hard to figure out how to dispose of my current lease and whether I should delay the Tesla delivery to the latest window that would still net me the tax credit.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if I'll get the car in time for the end of my lease, and if there will be any tax credit left. On the plus side, if I'm delayed to the point that I won't get the full credit then it makes the choice of AWD easier and it lets them sort more of the problems out.

Some people are buying the Tesla for cool technology. Others are buying the Tesla because of green energy. Most people are probably buying for a combination of things.

I'm buying because it's cool... and in AWD trim would be an electric that is at least as enjoyable to drive as my current car... I hope anyways.

On the other hand I'm not on a crusade to not burn gasoline. There are other good cars out there too. BMW new 3 series should be released next year and will have a lot of technical innovation as well.

The Oppenheimer article pointing out that those pre-ordering won't wait forever aren't just blowing smoke. Even for those on a crusade to drive electric other options will begin materializing in the next 12-18 months. If their order with Tesla gets pushed out far enough they will jump ship... especially if Tesla tax credits are exhausted but they can get $7500 off of MSRP from another automaker... and one that negotiates on their cars to boot (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Toyota, GM).

It will be interesting to see what the pre-order situation looks like Q1-Q2 of next year as reality sets in.

The Model X is a good comparison as it appears to have a similarly bumpy launch. However the Model X was a pretty low volume car with pre-orders in the thousands, not the hundreds of thousands. Tesla has repeatedly stated that they've got things down and have multiple suppliers of parts to prevent a single supplier failure from derailing things but it appears that might be exactly what has happened.

Again.

For like the 3rd time.

I think you are forecasting very reasonably. I'm on the verge of jumping off, having read about the manufacturing issues (which should have long-ago been resolved), the personnel issues, and increasing concern that once they do start building, I am losing confidence in sinking forty-something to 50 grand into one of their first year's production. If they cannot weld steel at this point (not a new technology to the industry), when they believe they have the issues resolved, they may later be surprised to find not all have been, and this would be one hell of a fix/recall. Further, I read this today, and find buying a competitive EV from a company who has been building cars for 90 years somehow more confidence-inspiring. Prior experience with this brand has been very satisfying.

Volvo's Polestar is launching a Tesla Model 3 rival for 2019