No Power Folding Mirrors for the Model S in the future.

[AustinPowers]

I have had automatically folding mirrors on both my last two cars - a Lexus and a Merc B. They fold when i park and remove the key. They are a fantastic feature in car parks and on the street and definitely minimise the chance of damage by passers by squeezing through. This is my main reason for wanting them. The "best car in the world"? No parking sensors, no folding mirrors, no centre console (altho' it may be coming), all little pinpricks which alone may not be deal breakers, but this is a luxury car folks - get real, it needs to have what the competitors have in terms of luxury features.

+1 on all accounts

In Europe, not having power folding mirrors WILL be a definite deal-breaker for many who are considering the Model S, as it is a lot wider than most other cars in the same category, hell it's wider than most cars on the market here. Remember not every country has space to waste like many US states. Roads are narrower here, so are garages, parking spaces, especially in public parking garages, where power folding mirrors are almost a must-have for cars that wide.

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I'm sufficiently surprised by the response 1young1 received, juxtaposed to what I was told previously, that I am inclined not to wholeheartedly believe either story at this point. Perhaps financial concerns have affected future features, or we were just flat out lied to by people representing themselves as "the engineer on this project or that project". Perhaps the new policy at Tesla is to "under promise/over deliver" when it comes to new or proposed features of the cars that people are inquiring about. Or perhaps it doesn't exist until it exists, as we have seen with rear LED lighting and visor vanity lighting. For that matter, we may never see lighted vanity mirrors or the myriad other things we have been led to believe one way or another are coming down the pipeline. I am disappointed in the increasing number of compromises that are being dealt as time goes on. As AO said "best car in the world, remember?" I hope that meant at least better than a $20K Kia Forte which, by the way, has front and rear stowable cup holders, lighted visor vanity mirrors, adequate rear trunk lighting, map pockets with bottle holders, and power folding side mirrors.

+1 also

Remember the Model S is supposed to be a "premium" sedan. What's so premium if you don't offer many of the aforementioned amenities that are available (standard ot optional) on most cars even of far "lower" price-categories?

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Well as a cyclist I think that glass still has some advantages.

First it is 2 way. I can see you sitting in the seat, and tell if you are paying attention or can see me.
Second it works when there is no power, or when the car is off.

That is something that bugs me as well about many electronic inventions to be added into cars now or in the near future.
As soon as you lose power (or because of some other glitch) you lose the function of the device, be it a camera (mirror), electric doors/handles, electric parking brake or whatever.

Some things are better left mechanical as they are. Especially everything that has to do with doors, brakes and mirrors.

 

[kevincwelch]

First it is 2 way. I can see you sitting in the seat, and tell if you are paying attention or can see me.
Second it works when there is no power, or when the car is off.

Agree completely.

The concept of camera mirrors is in my opinion idiotic and a safety hazard. Consider all the glitches (freezes, pixelation, etc.) with the computer screens so far. What would happen if your "mirrors" suddenly became pixelated or blacked out? No visibility.

This is one of those situations in which my response to the 2-5% loss in aerodynamics is: "So what?" Safety overrides that in my opinion.

Automatic folding mirrors? The MS should have those. Camera mirrors? Tesla should avoid these.

 

[contaygious]

Now that I've seen the mirror fold in Ben's helpful video I'm starting to think they gave up on this because it doesn't help much with the way the mirrors fold anyway. At most you'd save a few inches. I'm still not happy, but it seems I wouldn't gain as much as I'd like anyway.

 

[richkae]

Agree completely.

The concept of camera mirrors is in my opinion idiotic and a safety hazard. Consider all the glitches (freezes, pixelation, etc.) with the computer screens so far. What would happen if your "mirrors" suddenly became pixelated or blacked out? No visibility.

This is one of those situations in which my response to the 2-5% loss in aerodynamics is: "So what?" Safety overrides that in my opinion.

Automatic folding mirrors? The MS should have those. Camera mirrors? Tesla should avoid these.

If the purpose of cameras is for aerodynamics, then have both. Above 40mph the physical mirrors fold in. If the camera or screen have failed in some way, don't fold in. Above 40mph, none of the reasons stated for preferring physical mirrors apply.

 

[AustinPowers]

If the purpose of cameras is for aerodynamics, then have both. Above 40mph the physical mirrors fold in. If the camera or screen have failed in some way, don't fold in. Above 40mph, none of the reasons stated for preferring physical mirrors apply.

Yeah right. You're going 100 mph on the highway, want to change lanes to overtake and your camera mirror blacks out. Great for safety ;-)

 

[dsm363]

Yeah right. You're going 100 mph on the highway, want to change lanes to overtake and your camera mirror blacks out. Great for safety ;-)

You could always merge back into your original lane. Such a system might be able to auto-extend the physical mirrors if the cameras stopped working. I think it's a good compromise.

 

[J in MN]

... parking spaces, especially in public parking garages, where power folding mirrors are almost a must-have for cars that wide.

If the parking spaces are so narrow that you must fold the mirrors, how do you get in and out of the car?

 

[earthling]

Yeah right. You're going 100 mph on the highway, want to change lanes to overtake and your camera mirror blacks out. Great for safety ;-)

If you're going 100 mph, then what's behind you is not so important. (Unless it's the police. And that's the only traffic citation I've gotten in over 30 years. But hey, I was driving my AMG and it was in the desert for crying out loud!)

 

[kevincwelch]

If the parking spaces are so narrow that you must fold the mirrors, how do you get in and out of the car?

Dukes of Hazzard style, of course.

 

[Arnold Panz]

If the parking spaces are so narrow that you must fold the mirrors, how do you get in and out of the car?

This is no joke. In Germany (and most of Europe) every medium sized town or bigger has narrow roads, very tight parking etc., which is why small cars (like Smarts) are so popular there. With a wide car like an S, every inch is going to be critical. I have a lot of sympathy for Austin Powers -- I would NOT want to drive the S through the middle of Frankfurt!

 

[NigelM]

I'll agree with Arnold that Germany (and Europe generally) has narrower roads than I'm used to in the U.S. OTOH, the last 3 years I lived in Germany I had a Mercedes S which is only ~3 inches narrower and had no problems at all. Multi-level parking wasn't fun but streets were ok.

 

[AnOutsider]

I'll agree with Arnold that Germany (and Europe generally) has narrower roads than I'm used to in the U.S. OTOH, the last 3 years I lived in Germany I had a Model S which is only ~3 inches narrower and had no problems at all. Multi-level parking wasn't fun but streets were ok.

A ford s?

 

[NigelM]

A ford s?

Ha, I should have written Mercedes S! Thanks Marcus. Shows how obsessed we can get; corrected my post.

 

[AnOutsider]

Heh, not being a follower of the brand, I honestly couldn't think of another S. thought you liked it retro

 

[dpeilow]

Yeah right. You're going 100 mph on the highway, want to change lanes to overtake and your camera mirror blacks out. Great for safety ;-)

You're talking about cars where the brakes are controlled by software and worrying about a simple link from a camera to a screen?

 

[AustinPowers]

Dukes of Hazzard style, of course.

That's a good one

No but in all honesty, it often works like so:

You let your passengers get out first, fold in your mirrors (not just to get into the parking space easier but to avoid damaging them or them getting damaged by other people parking their vehicles next to you) then drive into the parking space so your passenger side is as close to the wall (or concrete post or whatever, see my second picture) as possible, then get (or squeeze) out.

Here is an example of a typical "getting out" situation in parking garages over here:

That's where the advantages of sliding doors (or the Model X falcon wings) can really make a difference.

And to give you another idea:

Note that these aren't vehicles the size of a Model S but rather typical European cars used in cities and for running family errands (as well as everything else). And in case anyone thought so, no, these are no "joke" pictures but gruesome reality.

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If you're going 100 mph, then what's behind you is not so important.

Really? Come over here and drive on the Autobahn at 100 mph (which is only 160 kmph). You will see that what is coming from behind definitely IS important.
Cars coming at you from behind in the left lane mostly do far more than 125 mph, the limit of many cars being 156 mph (250 kmph). Hence the importance of functioning mirrors.
And yes, many Autobahns still only have two lanes, of which the right is blocked most of the time by rows of slow freight-trucks/lorries, and even if there happen to be three lanes, then the lorries are on the right, they overtake using the middle lane (and they do that often, and often very abruptly), so you have to constantly be on the lookout and able to change to the left lane at short notice -
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This is no joke. In Germany (and most of Europe) every medium sized town or bigger has narrow roads, very tight parking etc., which is why small cars (like Smarts) are so popular there. With a wide car like an S, every inch is going to be critical. I have a lot of sympathy for Austin Powers -- I would NOT want to drive the S through the middle of Frankfurt!

+1
Even though driving through the middle of Frankfurt on the main roads won't be a problem. But as soon as you turn into many secondary roads it will definitely become uncomfortable - and I don't mean the ride quality.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

I have had automatically folding mirrors on both my last two cars - a Lexus and a Merc B. They fold when i park and remove the key. They are a fantastic feature in car parks and on the street and definitely minimise the chance of damage by passers by squeezing through. This is my main reason for wanting them. The "best car in the world"? No parking sensors, no folding mirrors, no centre console (altho' it may be coming), all little pinpricks which alone may not be deal breakers, but this is a luxury car folks - get real, it needs to have what the competitors have in terms of luxury features. Is the rear view mirror auto dimming for instance? No one has commented on this. If not, then this is yet another missing feature.

That's absolutely true. I agree with you.

 

[dsm363]

I have had automatically folding mirrors on both my last two cars - a Lexus and a Merc B. They fold when i park and remove the key. They are a fantastic feature in car parks and on the street and definitely minimise the chance of damage by passers by squeezing through. This is my main reason for wanting them. The "best car in the world"? No parking sensors, no folding mirrors, no centre console (altho' it may be coming), all little pinpricks which alone may not be deal breakers, but this is a luxury car folks - get real, it needs to have what the competitors have in terms of luxury features. Is the rear view mirror auto dimming for instance? No one has commented on this. If not, then this is yet another missing feature.

The mirrors (side and rearview) do auto-dim. I agree that they need to add these other features over time and I hope they are able to retrofit some of them.

 

[DrTaras]

There are similar advantages to having a rear view camera. The view out the back window of the Model S totally sucks. Gets worse if there are rear seat passengers. Gets worse if you tint the rear window (as you should). The position of the existing backup camera on the Model S totally sucks. It is off-center (which makes it difficult to backup into a parking spot and be centered), and it is mounted way too low to be an effective rear view camera for normal driving. The wide angle lense hurts this purpose as well. It is "fine" for making sure you don't run over a toddler while backing up, but does not make a good substitute for a rear view mirror. I'm a big fan of using a camera instead of a rearview mirror, but the existing camera on the Model S doesn't cut it for this purpose.

Great analysis. I was looking for a specific rear-view camera thread, but couldn't find one so excuse me if I post this here and am okay if it gets moved.
I just wanted to add one thing: The rear view camera does not have those 'runway' overlay guides that ALL my past rear back-up cameras have had both OEM and aftermarket.
Again, seems like a rather simple fix that the supplier should have. My 2 cents! :cursing:

 

[PRJIM]

Power Folding mirrors on the Model S would only be of marginal benefit as the side view mirrors are mounted on huge bulky brackets.