Nissan manufactured CHAdeMO 25kW limitation

[widodh]

But remember, the issue is probably with the Nissan/DBT chargers. They have a poor reliability track-record. I know they fail a lot.

The CHAdeMO adapter itself charges just fine with 120A at ABB stations in the Netherlands.

 

[J-Philipp]

But remember, the issue is probably with the Nissan/DBT chargers. They have a poor reliability track-record. I know they fail a lot.

The CHAdeMO adapter itself charges just fine with 120A at ABB stations in the Netherlands.

We know that this issue is only related to NISSAN/DBT chargers.
But the problem we have in France is that our country is covered of this crappy product. Maybe 90% of the total.

And Auchan and Ikea and many others have agreements to continue to spread them around.

(By the way could you, as an admin, change the title of the thread, as we requested earlier by the OP ?)

 

[dlt]

But remember, the issue is probably with the Nissan/DBT chargers. They have a poor reliability track-record. I know they fail a lot.

The CHAdeMO adapter itself charges just fine with 120A at ABB stations in the Netherlands.

Yes we have also had successful "full rate" chargings with ABB, Ensto and Circutor units which are available here in Finland. But as I said, more than 90% of our fast charging stations are these DBT/Nissan units.

Still waiting for the first real Supercharger to open in Finland. Should happen soon.

 

[RiverBrick]

We have seen full power (not 25kW limited) charging on old Tesla car firmware here too, with same adapter + dbt combination giving only 25kW to a car with up-to-date firmware a couple of days later.

Interesting, so technically someone with old enough firmware could keep refusing updates in order to get 40 kW at these stations. May you say how old? I only received 25 kW with 6.1.build .179. I thought this was always an issue in Japan, too , despite cars receiving the adapter and older software upon delivery last Fall. Perhaps they had an old software customized to have the cap.


It is definitely the responsibility of the designers and owners to improve and maintain their sub-par stations. A poorly maintained Nissan unit will overheat within a few minutes if a LEAF draws 40 kW, so it's not solely a Tesla issue. On plugshare, a LEAF owner only gets one station to work by capping himself to ~25 kW average. He does this by charging for two minutes, then hitting stop and letting the unit cool off for a minute before repeating.

Unfortunately, the slim Nissan station appears to the unit of choice for the expanding evGo network, so we'll be seeing more of them in North America.

 

[dlt]

Interesting, so technically someone with old enough firmware could keep refusing updates in order to get 40 kW at these stations. May you say how old?

It was one of the first 6.0 releases. 1.6xx (can't remember exact build).

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Why would Tesla limit the charge on Nissan chargers because they overheat? That sounds like Nissan's problem, not Tesla's. Maybe if we burned up more Nissan chargers on a regular basis, Nissan would do something to address the situation.

 

[TexasEV]

Why would Tesla limit the charge on Nissan chargers because they overheat? That sounds like Nissan's problem, not Tesla's. Maybe if we burned up more Nissan chargers on a regular basis, Nissan would do something to address the situation.

They would probably make their stations incompatible with the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Situation addressed.

 

[gregincal]

And since they are very busy, if someone comes up while I'm charging, I have to give up charging in only 30 minutes, resulting in 60km worth of charge

What I don't understand is that if the chargers are in continuous use then won't they have a problem anyway? Sure a Tesla may charge for a long time, but 4 back to back charges by Nissan Leafs will be even longer.

 

[llavalle]

Sadly this type of charger is very common in France, and I would never have bought this CHAdeMO adapter had I known it would give only 25 kW. This same type of charger is a equipped with one type 2 plug that can deliver 22 kW with my double chargers.

Don't forget that the 22kW on your double chagers are on the AC Side. With an effeciency of around 92%, you get around 20.24kW in the battery. The CHAdeMO at 25kW is 25kW at the battery. It's a 5kW difference... CHAdeMO will be close to 25% faster. Now, depending on the pricing model that might no be worth it.

Here, in Québec, CHAdeMO station are billed to the minutes ($10/hour). Level 2 Charging is $2.50 per charge.

- - - Updated - - -

What I don't understand is that if the chargers are in continuous use then won't they have a problem anyway? Sure a Tesla may charge for a long time, but 4 back to back charges by Nissan Leafs will be even longer.

Because each leaf will get into taper zone and the kW rating will get down each time. That's easier on the load than continuous load of the Tesla.

 

[invisik]

Is it a problem in the US as well? I charged at a Nissan dealer on the Nissan slim charger in March of this year and got 38kw speeds out of it. 104 amps, 363volts....

 

[jbcarioca]

I have used only one CHAdeMO station, that one a Nissan unit. The service manager says the unit fails about once a week and requires reset. I have a Tesla adapter. I will try the few minutes on, stop for a few minutes and charge again the next time I use the station. the station does shut down with overheat indication at 25w, as several of you have said. until i read this thread i thought this problem was unique to this station. Thanks to everyone for pointing out the intricacies of CHAdeMO. I am gaining an education here.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

They would probably make their stations incompatible with the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. Situation addressed.

Assuming this would be possible using CHAdeMO, it wouldn't be a big loss judging by how badly those Nissan units are maintained. But I wonder if they could exclude Teslas from charging?

 

[RiverBrick]

Is it a problem in the US as well? I charged at a Nissan dealer on the Nissan slim charger in March of this year and got 38kw speeds out of it. 104 amps, 363volts....

It is a problem for some. Do you remember what version of the car's software you had at the time? If you've had an update since then, it's possible you might be limited to 25 kW now.

Also I second the request for an op to change the title to reflect the 25 kW limit with the adapter only happening at Nissan stations.

 

[invisik]

It is a problem for some. Do you remember what version of the car's software you had at the time? If you've had an update since then, it's possible you might be limited to 25 kW now.

Yes I think I have a newer version now. I'll try to get over to that charger again, see what it does and report back.

-m

 

[davewill]

What I don't understand is that if the chargers are in continuous use then won't they have a problem anyway? Sure a Tesla may charge for a long time, but 4 back to back charges by Nissan Leafs will be even longer.

Not really. The max output of the CHAdeMO is fairly close to the max rate a LEAF battery CAN be charged, so during the charge, a LEAF will steadily decrease the power draw as the battery fills up. A Tesla can charge at over double the CHAdeMO max and so it will draw the that max for an extended period of time before it needs to start tapering. At the end of a 30-40min DC charge, the LEAF may only be pulling 5kW or even less. You'd have to have 8 or 10 LEAFs each charging only part way up back-to-back...and even that might not do it since the 5+ minutes or so needed to have one car disconnect and drive away, then another car park, authenticate and plug in would give the charger a chance to cool off.

I suspect even if it's possible to overheat one with LEAFs, it is such an unlikely scenario that it would never actually happen.

 

[PAT]

I just got this back from Tesla regarding the issue. Sorry about the german. In short:they working on a improvement but suppliers like Nissan need to support it. They also saying the chargeing station limits the power..

---Quote from mail from Tesla---
Bei einigen Stationen wie zum Beispiel Nissan ist es zur Zeit bekannt das Tesla von der Ladestation Seite limitiert wird.
Wir haben schon Kontakt mit diesen Herstellern aufgenommen und die Informiert.

Eine Verbesserung ist in Arbeit, muss aber von Hersteller (zum Beispiel Nissan) ausgeführt werden.
----

 

[RiverBrick]

I suspect even if it's possible to overheat one with LEAFs, it is such an unlikely scenario that it would never actually happen.

These units are poorly designed, so when not properly maintained, even charging a LEAF for 10 minutes can lead to overheating. There are plenty of threads on LEAF forums about sessions ending after a few minutes with the Nissan station posting a "thermal error" message.

I am still wondering why some North American Model S are immune to this problem. Just this weekend, someone charged at 38 kW at the Nissan dealer in South Burlington, VT, whereas another Model S was capped at 25 kW.

 

[dhanson865]

These units are poorly designed, so when not properly maintained, even charging a LEAF for 10 minutes can lead to overheating. There are plenty of threads on LEAF forums about sessions ending after a few minutes with the Nissan station posting a "thermal error" message.

I am still wondering why some North American Model S are immune to this problem. Just this weekend, someone charged at 38 kW at the Nissan dealer in South Burlington, VT, whereas another Model S was capped at 25 kW.

View attachment 80065

Could be one charged at a cool part of the morning or late night and the other charged in the day?

 

[nlc]

No I don't think because the limitation is implemented in the car and not in the Nissan station.
Maybe an older firmware in the car ?

 

[dlt]

No I don't think because the limitation is implemented in the car and not in the Nissan station.
Maybe an older firmware in the car ?

Yep, it was not limited in old 1.xx (6.0) firmwares. After 2.xx update - 25kW limit.