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Nissan has (to date) been capacity limited by one factory.
I don't think they have marketed the vehicle with all their might (yet).
I wouldn't count slowing sales figures as a sign it is on the way out.
I think the "second coming" of LEAF may hit next year as they bring their new factories online.
 
Question is, how many people can/will pay "Model S money" for a car (this car, or any car)? Even if Tesla manages to sell their goal of 20k units/year, it is still niche. I want to see BEVs gain mass adoption, and it's not going to happen at the Model S price point. See my earlier point as to why I'm less optimistic about Gen III. I really hope Tesla proves me wrong! There are few companies I root for, but Tesla is one of them.
Just follow ICE development - it's the same w/ EVs. Early ICE's were only for the rich just like EV's. W/ Model S they are moving down to upper-middle class (I've seen a TON of $40-$50k trucks/SUVs in Oklahoma so it's not like "regular" people don't figure out ways to buy expensive cars even if they shouldn't). As battery tech gets cheaper they'll move lower and lower. That's what happened w/ ICE's, that's what will happen w/ EV's.

But this will take time. You're essentially saying that Henry Ford should have built a 2012 Taurus in 1910. It just doesn't work that way. It takes time for technology to improve, economies of scale to develop, etc. ICE's are over 100 years into (continuous) development so very capable ICE's are now quite cheap. In theory the timelines for EV's will be shorter but this won't happen overnight.
 
...(I've seen a TON of $40-$50k trucks/SUVs in Oklahoma so it's not like "regular" people don't figure out ways to buy expensive cars even if they shouldn't)...

I think there was a period in time when banks started loaning out money to people who didn't have credit to justify it.
You know the story of the mortgage meltdowns and foreclosures. The same thing happened with luxury cars that ended up being repossessed.
Some dealers would get lease returnees to "roll up" to a more expensive model each time they returned one until they ended up in a vehicle they couldn't really afford.
Also the real estate bubble caused people to take out 3rd mortgages on over-inflated house prices so that they could buy a luxury car with it. The banks seemed all to willing to do it, but then ended up taking the car and the house when real estate prices dropped.
 
By the way, someone with a "GID meter" just took a reading off my LEAF (which I have had for 15months / 13K miles) after I charged to 100%, and they got a reading of 272 out of a possible/ideal 281... So, my LEAF is showing no more than 3% possible capacity reduction at this time, so far. When my LEAF is charging at night, temps are typically under 70 degrees F.
Thank you for sharing and for letting Mike collect the data from your vehicle. There was quite a bit of interest among local owners in field data gathering in the wake of the recent reports from Arizona. For what it's worth, virtually every battery pack here in the SF Bay Area has been between 95% and 98% of nominal capacity so far. This was determined by the aforementioned Gid meter, which is an AVR-CAN-based device distributed by Gary Giddings, a Leaf owner in Laguna Hills, CA.
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A bit of sacrilege, but it seems Nissan should not have sold the current LEAF model into the hotter southern states...

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Mike had also just collected GID readings from USA LEAF #1 (Gudy) who lives near me, and has a similar driving pattern, but he has had his 6 months longer, and 6K more miles (coming up on 20K). His reading was almost identical to mine.
 
A bit of sacrilege, but it seems Nissan should not have sold the current LEAF model into the hotter southern states...

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Mike had also just collected GID readings from USA LEAF #1 (Gudy) who lives near me, and has a similar driving pattern, but he has had his 6 months longer, and 6K more miles (coming up on 20K). His reading was almost identical to mine.
Couldn't agree more, and great to hear about Gudy! We discussed this at Refuel in Laguna Seca, but the logistics took a while to work out. Although we are steadily getting more data, it's still pretty anecdotal. That said, everything I have seen so far would indicate that the batteries are having trouble south of the 34th parallel. I tried to correlate Gid readings to different parameters, such as mileage, vehicle age, etc. What seems to be the largest contributing factor? It's the projected average ambient temperature at the place of residence, by an order of magnitude.
 
I understand that you don't want to use gasoline (me neither), but why is it OK to spend your summers in Canada, but bad to get your energy from Canada?
As JRP3 pointed out, the tar sands is an environmental disaster. But I was mainly thinking about Middle East oil, where oil revenues largely bankroll al Qaeda. Now, if you want to criticize me for burning all that gas to get to Canada and back, all I can say is mea culpa​.

Yep, the Leaf is already in the supposed mass market price range. It's adoption rate is really poor though so either that price point really doesn't help mass market adoption or the mass market finds the Leaf undesirable as a car for whatever reason(s).
Or perhaps it's just too early in the public education process for a mass-market EV. Nissan is so big they thought they could start with a mass-market car. Tesla, being small, started with a niche car that few could afford and that appealed mainly to a few. With the credibility of the Roadster, and the public getting a bit of exposure, they are now building a car that's still expensive, still has a limited market, but appeals to more people, those who've had a few years to watch the Roadsters and drool over them. Once there are a few tens of thousands of S and X on the road, and a lot more pople have seen and read about them, the market will be ready for a mass-market EV. And Tesla will have learned enough not to make the sort of mistakes Nissan made.
 
I think the LEAF is a great car. Sadly it needs about 20% more energy storage to really be a workable car for my current situation.

That being said I think Nissan would have done better to build from scratch (versus from Versa) the LEAF. And I think a funky uber-aero design would have been a good boost to its sales. I drove a Nissan LEAF and the only real let down that I had was when I looked under the hood. There was no plan under there. I was a complete mess. They even use a Valve cover for the inverter/PEM cover. "So it looks like a ICE". I think with a 'pure EV' method they could have squeezed in a bit more battery and cleaned up the front (I don't care if it has a frunk or not) under the hood. I think they would have done a bit better.

That and not having production available I think hurt LEAF a bunch. It probably would have been an awful business decision (huge risk). But when they get their UK and TN plans running I think LEAF will be huge!
 
That and not having production available I think hurt LEAF a bunch. It probably would have been an awful business decision (huge risk). But when they get their UK and TN plans running I think LEAF will be huge!

Agreed. For daily commuting the Leaf will meet the needs of a large population segment. Much larger than the Model S. But of course the Model S has a much different target market. I.e., those that want to travel more than 100 miles a day, etc.
 
Sadly it needs about 20% more energy storage to really be a workable car for my current situation.
I think a lot of people would like to see it with 100 mile real world range. Biggest issue with EVs, especially shorter range EVs, is to get people to expect 20-30% capacity degradation over the life of the vehicle. Inevitably people will look at the range when new and assume that it's not going to change significantly (say less than 10%) over the life of the vehicle. 20-30% loss in range over 5-10 years is very significant!

This has to be done up front, otherwise you end up with disenfranchised customers. I think Tesla's setup of having standard and range modes is a good way to handle this, but when the battery is new, one might consider hiding additional capacity in standard mode to further flatten the degradation curve. Tough to do since batteries are expensive and one wants to extract as much as possible out of them.

That being said I think Nissan would have done better to build from scratch (versus from Versa) the LEAF.
I know this rumor has been around a while, but from what I understand, the LEAF is on an entirely new platform designed for the LEAF.

And I think a funky uber-aero design would have been a good boost to its sales.
Problem with funky uber-aero designs is that they tend to reduce interior space. The LEAF has more rear head-room than the Model S despite being a LOT smaller. Definitely still room for improvement and any improvement would help with freeway range, especially.

I drove a Nissan LEAF and the only real let down that I had was when I looked under the hood. There was no plan under there. I was a complete mess. They even use a Valve cover for the inverter/PEM cover. "So it looks like a ICE".
I dunno, doesn't look bad to me compared to comparable EVs on the market (look at the Fit EV, Focus EV, for example, and don't get me started on the ActiveE!). I think the "valve cover" was done simply because the inverter ended up with a similar footprint so someone got the idea it'd be "cute" to make it look conventional.

I think with a 'pure EV' method they could have squeezed in a bit more battery and cleaned up the front (I don't care if it has a frunk or not) under the hood. I think they would have done a bit better.
For a 1st gen EV I think they've done a decent job. Most useful would be getting the charger out from between the rear wheels and into the engine bay as that would open up a lot of trunk space. With a lot of effort they might be able to squeeze in a frunk, but probably not more than a couple cu-ft worth especially after the charger is moved up front. Getting the inverter integrated into the motor package like the Model S would help open up additional space under the hood. I'd love to see a small lithium battery used for 12V booting of the car instead of the big lead-acid battery, too. But cost cutting will probably keep that from happening on anything but high-end cars.
 
I know this rumor has been around a while, but from what I understand, the LEAF is on an entirely new platform designed for the LEAF.

I dunno, doesn't look bad to me compared to comparable EVs on the market (look at the Fit EV, Focus EV, for example, and don't get me started on the ActiveE!). I think the "valve cover" was done simply because the inverter ended up with a similar footprint so someone got the idea it'd be "cute" to make it look conventional.

I believe the LEAF is a unique car, but derived heavily from the Versa platform. I agree it is MUCH better under the hood than the Focus EV and the Fit EV, and it actually has batteries placed well, and not just crammed into the trunk. But Compared to the model S there is a lot that could have been done. I think the 'valve cover' idea was also someone's idea of a 'good idea'. When I was shown under the hood, my eyes went wide and I said "Why do you ... Why is there ... What is this valve cover covering in the car?" Or something very similar.


For a 1st gen EV I think they've done a decent job. Most useful would be getting the charger out from between the rear wheels and into the engine bay as that would open up a lot of trunk space. With a lot of effort they might be able to squeeze in a frunk, but probably not more than a couple cu-ft worth especially after the charger is moved up front. Getting the inverter integrated into the motor package like the Model S would help open up additional space under the hood. I'd love to see a small lithium battery used for 12V booting of the car instead of the big lead-acid battery, too. But cost cutting will probably keep that from happening on anything but high-end cars.


I cut my comments about LEAF Mk2 being a real good car. I hope Nissan gets their second generation LEAF and Tesla gets their Gen III car out close to one another. I have a feeling that they will herald the coming of electric drive for the masses.

I also think this time will bring up a different Volt conversation. Where instead of people bashing it for being electric, they start wondering why they have to buy it with an ICE.
 
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I know this rumor has been around a while, but from what I understand, the LEAF is on an entirely new platform designed for the LEAF.

The Leaf is built on the Renault-Nissan B0 platform. B0 (B-zero) is a stretched wheelbase version of the B platform. It is because of this platform sharing that the Leaf can be built in the same assembly line in Oppama as the Cube, Juke, and Tiida/Versa (Japanese market, NA market Versa is built in Mexico and the new NA version is now on a second gen "V" platform).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_B_platform
 
...For a 1st gen EV I think they've done a decent job. Most useful would be getting the charger out from between the rear wheels and into the engine bay as that would open up a lot of trunk space...

I have a feeling they will do that starting next year.
(A new 6.6kW charger under the front hood better integrated with the inverter package.)
 
The Leaf is built on the Renault-Nissan B0 platform. B0 (B-zero) is a stretched wheelbase version of the B platform. It is because of this platform sharing that the Leaf can be built in the same assembly line in Oppama as the Cube, Juke, and Tiida/Versa (Japanese market, NA market Versa is built in Mexico and the new NA version is now on a second gen "V" platform).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_B_platform

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