Nissan Leaf

[gene]

@SpaceX, I have recently run across some extraordinary deals on Chevy DEMO Spark EV's. This was first brought to my attention from a buyer of a demo (though the dealers are calling them used) Spark EV from one of the New England states. He bought a "used" Spark EV with a few hundred miles for less than $20K, but it still came with the MSO papers so he was able to get federal and state rebates.

Here in California I checked cars.com and autotrader.com and I found a dealer in Stockton, salesman's name is Tracy, who has a couple of Spark EV's at $19k. Here in California, that $19k less $7500, less $2500 get you a Spark EV with 218 miles on it for $9,000!!!!! The Spark has liquid cooled battery and the owners on the Spark forums are reporting near zero degradation. You can check around Florida for the same deal. Start by looking at cars.com and autotrader.com If you see a "used" Spark EV with ridiculous low miles, call the dealer and ask if it is actually demo and comes with the MSO papers.

 

[eloder]

You can always considered a smart EV lease (ridiculously low $1400 due at signing, $139/month), or a used smart EV.

It's a small car, but its battery holds up really well even in extreme temperatures and it is cheaper to lease than any other EV out there.

Smart actually has a decently managed battery, on-par with a Chevy Volt (liquid cooled).

 

[Rifleman]

My wife and I took a leaf for a 40 mile test drive last Saturday. Our thought process was that it would be a good replacement for our Volt (its lease ends next month). We started with 68 miles of range on the guess-o-meter, and pulled back into the dealer with 4 miles left. My wife's only comment was "The Leaf drives better than the Volt, and has much more interior room, but the range indicator is useless, the range is too short, and its just not a Tesla!". The end result was us stopping buy the local Tesla store to have them check the CPO system for anything in our price range that had not yet popped up on the website, and we ended up placed a deposit on a Second Model S60!

Despite being a short range vehicle, I was actually more impressed with the leaf than I thought I would be. It was quieter and roomier than my Volt, had a smooth ride and decent handling (for a cheap car), and after tax credits was dirt cheap. If you can live with the range, are in a region that is temperature compatible with the battery, and are on a tight budget, it actually is worth looking into.

 

[Canuck]

The comments are all true about the Leaf. It's a terrible car for hot climates, and also very cold climates. Hot climates degrade the battery fast. Cold climates decrease its already too short range.

So that limits it to the Pacific Northwest's climate. Not too hot and not too cold. Even so, the range is just too short. But if you want to keep your teenage kids close to home, and off the road except for short commutes, it's great, and it's better than being their taxi driver.

So that limits it to a perfect car for teenage kids in the Pacific Northwest, which is why I bought one and I really like.

 

[TEG]

Mine is doing OK here in the SF bay area... 30K miles and "11 bars" so far... (lost 1 bar @~28K) 2011 Model VIN < 1000

Very easy to drive, quiet, comfortable, practical.

 

[Canuck]

Mine is doing OK here in the SF bay area... 30K miles and "11 bars" so far... (lost 1 bar @~28K) 2011 Model VIN < 1000

Very easy to drive, quiet, comfortable, practical.

The SF bay area is probably second best climate for the Leaf over the Pacific Northwest. That first bar is 15% loss of battery capacity. Is that acceptable? The next bars will drop off at only 6.25%. I doubt the Leaf would see the same degradation with a thermal BMS.

 

[dhanson865]

The comments are all true about the Leaf. It's a terrible car for hot climates, and also very cold climates. Hot climates degrade the battery fast. Cold climates decrease its already too short range.

So that limits it to the Pacific Northwest's climate. Not too hot and not too cold. Even so, the range is just too short. But if you want to keep your teenage kids close to home, and off the road except for short commutes, it's great, and it's better than being their taxi driver.

So that limits it to a perfect car for teenage kids in the Pacific Northwest, which is why I bought one and I really like.

It's my family's primary daily driver seeing use 7 days a week. We leave the Prius and the Saturn, and the Nissan Pickup gathering dust if the Leaf is available. I actually have to drive the Saturn and the Nissan truck on nuisance errands (a couple of miles + idling) just to keep the gas from going stale.

I'm sure things are different on the east coast US and west coast US and most of Canada but for those of us in the US that are in what we call "fly over country" the average daily commute is pretty darn short.

I'm driving about 15 miles each way to the next city over to work. Other than driving the 200+ miles from NC when I bought the car used the longest trip I've taken in the last 4 months was 22 miles one way.

The range of this car hasn't limited me once. Not even a little bit.

Now I haven't hit winter yet but since I can do a summer commute in 90F+ temps with AC blasting and only use 20% SOC I expect I can make the commute in the winter no problem.

I just don't see how people can say it's range is too short. Must be a different world for people that think that.

 

[Canuck]

I just don't see how people can say it's range is too short. Must be a different world for people that think that.

Yes, completely different worlds. Just today, my daughter had to go to University of British Columbia, which is about 50 km one way. Taking the Leaf and expecting to make it home was just too much stress for her. If it could make it, it would be barely. Same as going to downtown Vancouver and back from our house, which I do regularly in my Tesla.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's my family's primary daily driver seeing use 7 days a week. We leave the Prius and the Saturn, and the Nissan Pickup gathering dust if the Leaf is available. I actually have to drive the Saturn and the Nissan truck on nuisance errands (a couple of miles + idling) just to keep the gas from going stale.

I'm sure things are different on the east coast US and west coast US and most of Canada but for those of us in the US that are in what we call "fly over country" the average daily commute is pretty darn short.

I'm driving about 15 miles each way to the next city over to work. Other than driving the 200+ miles from NC when I bought the car used the longest trip I've taken in the last 4 months was 22 miles one way.

The range of this car hasn't limited me once. Not even a little bit.

Now I haven't hit winter yet but since I can do a summer commute in 90F+ temps with AC blasting and only use 20% SOC I expect I can make the commute in the winter no problem.

I just don't see how people can say it's range is too short. Must be a different world for people that think that.

Problem is that people who do a reasonable number of miles have the incentive to look and the need for solid minimum range. Leaf's thermal non-management really affects use as well as durability. Living in a cold climate longevity wouldn't be my concern. I'd need to know that it could handle my commute, including in winter and after a good number of years. I'll settle for 8 but would like 10.

 

[Mr X]

My wife and I took a leaf for a 40 mile test drive last Saturday. Our thought process was that it would be a good replacement for our Volt (its lease ends next month). We started with 68 miles of range on the guess-o-meter, and pulled back into the dealer with 4 miles left. My wife's only comment was "The Leaf drives better than the Volt, and has much more interior room, but the range indicator is useless, the range is too short, and its just not a Tesla!". The end result was us stopping buy the local Tesla store to have them check the CPO system for anything in our price range that had not yet popped up on the website, and we ended up placed a deposit on a Second Model S60!

Despite being a short range vehicle, I was actually more impressed with the leaf than I thought I would be. It was quieter and roomier than my Volt, had a smooth ride and decent handling (for a cheap car), and after tax credits was dirt cheap. If you can live with the range, are in a region that is temperature compatible with the battery, and are on a tight budget, it actually is worth looking into.

Couldn't be more false.

 

[Canuck]

Couldn't be more false.

I don't think something that is subjective can be false. You can say for the vast majority of people the Volt drives better, or in objective testing it performs better (and I don't know if that's true or not) but you can't say a person's view of their subjective experience is false.

 

[Rifleman]

Couldn't be more false.

We have had our Volt for 2 years 11 months (we turn it in next month), and this was her opinion. She felt the leaf we drove was smoother and quieter than our Volt, but the volt definitely has better acceleration. I thought the volt handled better, but she thinks the leaf did. Its all personal opinion.

 

[Dave EV]

The SF bay area is probably second best climate for the Leaf over the Pacific Northwest. That first bar is 15% loss of battery capacity. Is that acceptable? The next bars will drop off at only 6.25%. I doubt the Leaf would see the same degradation with a thermal BMS.

Maybe if the TMS aimed to keep the temperature of the pack well below 75F.

But if you compare to what Tesla does with the Model S, Tesla lets the temperature go up much higher. It really doesn't kick on much except when charging fast in hot weather, when the pack gets to 90-95F.

The temp of the pack in my LEAF very rarely gets above 90F.

The issue is the chemistry. Tesla has more heat tolerant chemistry, along with just about everyone else. Nissan finally introduced heat tolerant chemistry in 2015, but it remains to be seen how much better it actually is. Time will tell. Anecdotal evidence may indicate that mid-late 2013 LEAFs and later may have more heat tolerant chemistry than the earlier LEAFs.

 

[cwerdna]

The SF bay area is probably second best climate for the Leaf over the Pacific Northwest.

Maybe... but it depends on where in the SF Bay Area. There are many microclimates and some days in the summer, there can be temp deltas of 20 to 30 F in a given day, depending on the area.

Example, these are the forecast high temps for Sunday.
San Jose: 93 F (34 C)
my zip code (part of the above city): 96 F (36 C)
Daly City: 73 F (23 C)
San Francisco: 75 F (24 C)
Walnut Creek: 101 F (38 C)

All of the above I'd consider to be in the SF Bay Area.

 

[Chickenlittle]

I just got a CPO 2013 leaf SL for my daughter. Could not wait for a model3. Extremely impressed with the car and ride. 20,000 miles and the car just charged to 86 miles regular and 91 Eco. Drove home 17 miles from dealorship and that only ticked off 6 miles of the range. I was following in model s and did not feel she was driving slowly at all. The depreciation on the car is crazy. Of course no tax credit since used but price less than 50% of new price AFTER tax credit subtracted. A good bridge to get her to model3 release unless they do release a larger battery pack.

 

[Chickenlittle]

Hi Guys! I am thinking about selling my Prius due to Battery controller problems and other issues. I am thinking of switching to a used nissan leaf for 9000$. A great deal in my opinion. I am familiar with the bars indicating the battery health left and it looks not too bad. Since I do mostly local driving here in Florida, I think I should be just fine and borrow my friends cars when I need to go further. My question is, what do you guys say to a used nissan leaf? Worth the money? The fast charging port is of an old connector, right? So I should not count on future fast charging? And what is the AC impact on range? My impression is that it is not very significant (~20%) compared to heating in the cold weather in the north...

Like this one...
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/636709945/overview/

btw. I made a post earlier about why I would never buy an EV. This was not taken seriously and should only set some focus on the electricity price issue. My main motivation is the low gas price. Now it is a good time to switch for everyone. If we act short sighted now, we might be stuck in the oil age for way too long...

You should be aware that 2014 and newer leafs have a different battery chemistry that improves on life of battery in extreme hot temperatures. All replacement batteries will have this chemistry so if you run into increased degradation and get warrantee replacement will be new chemistry. I took advantage of rapid depreciation too. Country views battery cars as toxic so rapid price decrease. It will decrease your depreciation and price if you get a used one

 

[dmunjal]

My 2011 with 30k miles has lost three bars and I'm debating what to do. I'd like to keep the car but I doubt I will be able to get a free replacement battery by the time the warranty expires. I plan to keep the car for sometime since it's in excellent condition. Should I upgrade the battery now or wait?

 

[Takumi]

My 2011 with 30k miles has lost three bars and I'm debating what to do. I'd like to keep the car but I doubt I will be able to get a free replacement battery by the time the warranty expires. I plan to keep the car for sometime since it's in excellent condition. Should I upgrade the battery now or wait?

If the battery capacity currently meets your needs in the summer as well as winter, then there is no point in getting a new battery. The longer you are able to hold on getting a new battery, it's more likely the new one (if you still decide to keep your LEAF) will be much improved.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If the battery capacity currently meets your needs in the summer as well as winter, then there is no point in getting a new battery. The longer you are able to hold on getting a new battery, it's more likely the new one (if you still decide to keep your LEAF) will be much improved.

He has to keep in mind the 60 months/60,000 miles limit though for the 70% guarantee. If he goes past that, he may have to pay out of his pocket.

 

[dmunjal]

He has to keep in mind the 60 months/60,000 miles limit though for the 70% guarantee. If he goes past that, he may have to pay out of his pocket.

I bought it second hand so the warranty is from the original sale date which is coming up next March. I doubt I'll lose another bar by then. The car is barely meeting my needs and I charge it to 100% daily and I wake up to 64 miles which is about 50 in normal driving.

I wouldn't mind paying for the new battery (about $5k?) but want to wait for a larger battery (30 kwhr) which would make this car very usable with probably 100 real miles.