Gotta love competition. Alcoa isn't just competing against steel and its own existing products. It is also competing against carbon fiber which in theory can be much cheaper once they automate its manufacture more.
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New Alcoa aluminum sheet process
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Chickenlittle
Banned
just my opinion that alcoa is perhaps a stronger manufacturing company than tesla with many innovations and no issues on ramping up
I'd suggest that ramping up for making aluminium and ramping up for making cars are quite different. I don't know that their core competency would help them all that much. Their main advantage would be cost. And they'd still need to do the battery and motor research.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
I got to meet a bunch of the Alcoa people last summer, when I brought my Tesla in for their global Board of Directors meeting. The amount of intelligence amongst the hardcore scientists and engineers in their materials / metallurgy department was mind-boggling. They were showing me scanning/tunneling electron microscopes that could identify specific atoms bonded to the surface of the Aluminum, and several layers deep into the metal. The experience they have with aluminum is unsurpassed, and could never be matched by Tesla, without decades of investment. Tesla should remain focused on cars and batteries.
bluenation
Member
^yep, by trying to be jack of all trades, tesla may end up being master of none.
that's the danger with massively vertical integration
that's the danger with massively vertical integration
Let me clarify. When I said Tesla should get a mill, this was on the assumption that Alcoa was actually going to sell this mill to others. If they didn't plan to sell a mill, why would they announce a "micromill" and not just a new aluminum product. It would be much easier to say they have a new alloy that is more formable, lighter, etc, etc. By saying they have a new mill, they imply that they will sell the mill and the knowledge to run it. If that it true, it might make sense for Tesla to control their own sheet aluminum supply chain.
Chickenlittle
Banned
Yes they are. Alcoa does it well and finds unique new uses. They are piloting aluminum battery they have developed with I believe 4 unnamed car companies this year as range extenders. No they do not just seek to make soda cans and tin foil, products the public and a lot of the investment community associates with them
RobinF
Member
I'm not too sure how this could really benefit Tesla though. I can see how it benefits Alcoa. Tesla buys its aluminum in rolls to start with. Whatever makes those rolls less expensive is a win sure, but really that will be a neglible cost saving to the overall production cost of the vehicle. The costs are driven by all those robots and the factory staff and of course the cost of the battery packs. (The battery packs are not driven by the cost of lithium by the way, but rather nickel. If someone could make a dent in nickel supply costs THAT would have a nice impact on the cost of the vehicles.)
The Model 3 will in all likelihood be made of steel to keep costs low. Alcoa would have to really drive down the costs of aluminum to steel levels in order to change that. Unlikely.
The Model 3 will in all likelihood be made of steel to keep costs low. Alcoa would have to really drive down the costs of aluminum to steel levels in order to change that. Unlikely.
I believe there is a good chance the skate platform will be aluminum like the S and X with the rest of the car steel.
efxjim
Member
The Mini Mill is used to process the scrap left after forming the car parts. I believe it can be as much as 70% waste. Rather than shipping all these leftover bits all the way back to the foundry they can be turned back into sheet goods at the factory. This saves all the handling and transportation expense. I would bet Tesla will be installing these at Fremont and the Gigafactory.
