My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD

[Durzel]

Sadly with NDAs being a standard feature of any settlements, and presumably most people accepting them, this issue probably isn’t going to get much traction in the media.

There was that Telegraph article about @edb49 ’s case, and some others who may be on here or not, but the very fact Tesla are seeking to settle - even at the 11th hour - ensures there is no actual legal judgement on their position.

(not that small claims set precedents, ordinarily)

 

[GlynG]

Sadly with NDAs being a standard feature of any settlements, and presumably most people accepting them, this issue probably isn’t going to get much traction in the media.

There was that Telegraph article about @edb49 ’s case, and some others who may be on here or not, but the very fact Tesla are seeking to settle - even at the 11th hour - ensures there is no actual legal judgement on their position.

(not that small claims set precedents, ordinarily)

Totally agree with your comments.
The one thing that Tesla settling eventually would suggest is they have no reasonable expectation FSD will ever work in the UK in the foreseeable future, and it makes sense not to settle until the customer has put quite a bit of effort into pursuing their claim - so only paying out when they feel they are being forced to - rather than doing the right thing.

I'm not in a position to issue any claim as i did not buy the car new from Tesla, Ive had it three years, bought in 2021, the car had been used for 6 months, pandemic came and the driver decided to take early retirement so the car was handed back to Tusker at 6 months old and with everything closed it sat a further 6 months until the auctions opened up.
At that time FSD was still perceived to be just months away from a reality and therefore had a value - so i paid more for the car than a car without it - but how much?

I'm at that point where I have no expectation, but hope, that updates filter through at some point that enables FSD to have a little more usefulness for the rest of the time I own the car, I wouldn't even be interested in being able to transfer it to a new car because I wouldn't buy another Tesla - and that's primarily because of my loathing of Electric Jesus.

 

[NewbieT]

I think it’s a commercial decision to settle. A small cost and lower risk to settle. Easy decision for them in reality.

 

[Pagemakers]

Just like the PPI, diesel emissions and mis-selling of insurance commission scandals, I’m sure the Tesla FSD scandal will come back to bite them in a big way and rightly so.

 

[qwickshot]

It really won’t, we are talking about a few thousand people in the U.K., all those other things you mentioned affected millions of people.

It’s not even really a scandal, the legislative framework which operates in the U.K. doesn’t allow it despite the U.K. government promising to change it to allow ‘self driving’ cars on the roads every year for the past 5 years.

 

[speedyranger74]

It really won’t, we are talking about a few thousand people in the U.K., all those other things you mentioned affected millions of people.

It’s not even really a scandal, the legislative framework which operates in the U.K. doesn’t allow it despite the U.K. government promising to change it to allow ‘self driving’ cars on the roads every year for the past 5 years.

U.K. Government vs Elon Musk: 1 - 0
Every year vs two weeks .

 

[edb49]

I talked to my solicitor pal and he said I’d need to own it when I filed the small claims court motion. Something about “having interest” and “releasing interest” when selling. Happy enough to just let it go and move on, but also hope they are class action sued into bankruptcy over FSD eventually.

This isn't correct. You have a cause of action and if you were so minded, could take Tesla to court. You would need to subtract the value for FSD you received when you sold the car, which is less than £1k according to others.

 

[edb49]

Isn't there an issue if the car is now in someone else's ownership and sold with FSD? If Tesla were to refund the FSD (or EAP) cost to the original purchaser it seems to me they would be within their rights to then remove it from the car? How would the new owner feel about that?

No, they couldn't remove FSD in this situation.

 

[Krash]

…You would need to subtract the value for FSD you received when you sold the car, which is less than £1k according to others.

So your argument in court is that someone on the internet said so?

In retrospect, It would have been interesting to get two offers from the same buyer, which isn’t totally unreasonable if it were in a region and during a time where you can transfer FSD before the sale, one offer with and one without FSD to the buyer.

I don’t doubt it’s less than £1k. I just doubt that one can make a convincing argument in court without substantiating the difference.

 

[edb49]

So your argument in court is that someone on the internet said so?

In retrospect, It would have been interesting to get two offers from the same buyer, which isn’t totally unreasonable if it were in a region and during a time where you can transfer FSD before the sale, one offer with and one without FSD to the buyer.

I don’t doubt it’s less than £1k. I just doubt that one can make a convincing argument in court without substantiating the difference.

I've already had my settlement from Tesla and helped a number get theirs.

You can look up what the civil standard of proof is, there's so much evidence this is an easy win.

You make your argument in court and it's down to Tesla to disprove it. If the judge thinks there's a 51pc chance your right then he/she decides in your favour.

If anyone wants to take this through to the conclusion I'll help them here.

 

[speedyranger74]

I received the response from TW and seems I have two options:
1. Discontinue my Claim
2. Send them a reasonable settlement proposal.

I'm still waiting to receive the letter from County Court Judgement, requested 13.02.2024.

 

[yessuz]

I received the response from TW and seems I have two options:
1. Discontinue my Claim
2. Send them a reasonable settlement proposal.

I'm still waiting to receive the letter from County Court Judgement, requested 13.02.2024.

well, reasonable would be all costs for FSD + any costs for the litigation incurred already ;/

 

[edb49]

I received the response from TW and seems I have two options:
1. Discontinue my Claim
2. Send them a reasonable settlement proposal.

I'm still waiting to receive the letter from County Court Judgement, requested 13.02.2024.

Those aren't your two options... Those are the two that TW/Tesla want you to take! You can continue to litigation if you do choose.

You can write a really quick email to them like this... You will need to calculate interest and total and they will most likely want an NDA. If you don't want an NDA you can tell them and it may mean they take it to court. (Although more likely in my view they'll just try and settle later.)

----------------
Without Prejudice

Dear Taylor Wessing,

I am prepared to settle on these terms:

1. FSD is removed from my car.
2. Tesla makes a payment to me of £xxxx being:
A) £5800 for FSD
B) £455 court costs
C) £yy being interest at the court rate from 1st January 2020 to the date of payment.

This offer is open for 2 weeks from the date of this email, after which it is withdrawn.
----------------

Make sure you include the "without prejudice" phrase.

 

[speedyranger74]

Those aren't your two options... Those are the two that TW/Tesla want you to take! You can continue to litigation if you do choose.

You can write a really quick email to them like this... You will need to calculate interest and total and they will most likely want an NDA. If you don't want an NDA you can tell them and it may mean they take it to court. (Although more likely in my view they'll just try and settle later.)

----------------
Without Prejudice

Dear Taylor Wessing,

I am prepared to settle on these terms:

1. FSD is removed from my car.
2. Tesla makes a payment to me of £xxxx being:
A) £5800 for FSD
B) £455 court costs
C) £yy being interest at the court rate from 1st January 2020 to the date of payment.

This offer is open for 2 weeks from the date of this email, after which it is withdrawn.
----------------

Make sure you include the "without prejudice" phrase.

Posting a picture where I don't have FSD could be considered breach of NDA?

 

[init6]

If people stop moaning about FSD then we'd be able to read between the lines

 

[speedyranger74]

This morning I sent my reasonable proposal and a few minutes ago I got the response... of course not accepted/ rejected my reasonable proposal.

 

[Pagemakers]

well, reasonable would be all costs for FSD + any costs for the litigation incurred already ;/

What about the finance/interest charges for FSD over the 3-4 years of the finance deal (if of course the car was financed).

 

[speedyranger74]

What about the finance/interest charges for FSD over the 3-4 years of the finance deal (if of course the car was financed).

Reasonable question and entitled to ask for entirely compensation.
Not my case. The car was 4.3.2020 and fsd 16.5.2020

 

[yessuz]

What about the finance/interest charges for FSD over the 3-4 years of the finance deal (if of course the car was financed).

oh, I did not include that one. that is obviously needed to be added

 

[Jaysuey51]

This morning I sent my reasonable proposal and a few minutes ago I got the response... of course not accepted/ rejected my reasonable proposal.

Their response says they will take their clients instruction, that's not a rejection that just means they have to put it to the client for the client to decide.