My biggest surprise? They didn't show the seats folded for max cargo

[Cebe]

Disingenuous. You know that the design was settled some time back; design, engineering, tooling is a process that takes many months.

I assume you mean Tesla is being disingenous. I don't personally know when the design was settled, but I understand what you're saying. Where do you draw the line? I imagine the shareholders would freak out if you had a completely "open source" design that shows the complete up to date design of every detail. Perhaps "middle seats won't fold" is something that is critical enough for an SUV that you would feel obliged to disclose this to the public (we know that the info reservation holders get immediately becomes public.) If the reservation was a binding contract for you having to buy a car, that would clearly be the case.

So, how far do you take it, and where do you draw the line? Folding seats - seems to be important enough to a number of people on this forum, perhaps that needs to be communicated. As somebody mentioned, if they had decided to go ICE engine instead of a BEV, that would clearly be something they should say. What about the choice of colors at launch time? I imagine not. What about things that could be competitive advantage, a trade secret or even something you could patent?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

A free market based on deception and misrepresentation. How civilized and wonderful.

Cue music, What A Wonderful World - Louis Armstrong

Free markets are the most efficient and fair form of human interaction that also conserves resources balanced by supply and demand. The unfortunate part is, we don't have anything close to a laissez faire free market and therefore we don't have capitalism. We have corrupted form of predatory capitalism AKA corporatism. And a market completely distorted and manipulated end-to-end by entities that are supposed to be "regulated" by our wonderful, trustworthy governments. The biggest manipulation of them all begins where currency (not money) is created and then distributed. End The Fed.

 

[gizmoboy]

Disingenuous. You know that the design was settled some time back; design, engineering, tooling is a process that takes many months.

But you know that's not true, Nigel -- those 6-seat options didn't even bubble up until after the initial configurator launch. And none of us know what's going on behind the scenes at Tesla.

There is every reason (and evidence) to believe that parts were in motion right up until announcement (and continue to be even after).

It's simply unrealistic to expect Tesla to keep everyone "in the loop" of its design decisions every step of the way.

The configurator reveal was the first opportunity to see what you were buying, and anyone could cancel or defer.

The launch event was the second chance, and those two options still exist for the uncommitted.

Real sigs in the hands of people who aren't fat-cats who won't publicize details due to not being that kind of person will be the next chance.

We can be darn sure that Bonnie will post exhaustively about her sig when she gets it, and she will be getting it as early as any non-Founder, so we have that to look forward to.

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Would we prefer Tesla not show anything and just release a final car?

Isn't that what most MFGs do? There's a proto-type at a car show and then that's it. What you see is the model year car that is released. That's it.

Kind of this big gripe about guessing what is going to be in the next version of software. They can go with the, we don't know anything, we can't wish for anything and we get what we get.

As a side note, I would have preferred flat seats, but I also don't think what they did was unethical or anything.

And the concept cars always have a lot of features that don't make it into the real model. But everyone understands that.

I also think that fold-flat seats offer more utility for hauling stuff. And if they could have made them without other compromises, I'm sure they would have (and perhaps they will, ultimately), but I don't know why they felt they couldn't and I assume it was a decision based on realities and research rather than a whim.

There was a great piece recently by Horace Dediu at Asymco about Apple products and greatness. It's worth a read, but the quote that is relevant here is this: "Paradoxically, the improvements are not usually things that users ask for. Surveys always show that consumers want “better battery life” or a “bigger screen” but delivering something else entirely which nevertheless leads to mass adoption shows an uncanny insight into what really matters. Indeed, those who deliver only what customers ask for end up marginalized and bereft of profit."

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I'm disappointed they don't fold flat. I think Elon is also disappointed, but that's just me speculating. I believe Elon wanted rotating, sculptural, beautiful pedestal seats that folded flat. And I do think they finally hit that hard Q3 deadline, he was embarrassed about the extended delay and he decided they had to fish or cut bait and go with something that they could deliver - something that was also comfortable, safe and otherwise functional - by the end of Q3. And they simply didn't have enough time to work out all the engineering and production challenges to make the seats do everything he wanted them to do. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

That sounds likely to me as well.

 

[EfficientWatts]

I think Elon is also disappointed, but that's just me speculating. I believe Elon wanted rotating, sculptural, beautiful pedestal seats that folded flat. And I do think they finally hit that hard Q3 deadline, he was embarrassed about the extended delay and he decided they had to fish or cut bait and go with something that they could deliver - something that was also comfortable, safe and otherwise functional - by the end of Q3.

I hope then that they'll deliver folding seats later down the road; I don't think that they given up on that completely. I hope they announce folding seats as an option/upgrade sometime next year or later (can't be too soon, because they'll otherwise make a lot of new owners mad).

 

[NigelM]

But you know that's not true, Nigel -- those 6-seat options didn't even bubble up until after the initial configurator launch. And none of us know what's going on behind the scenes at Tesla.

There is every reason (and evidence) to believe that parts were in motion right up until announcement (and continue to be even after).

It's simply unrealistic to expect Tesla to keep everyone "in the loop" of its design decisions every step of the way.

a) We were talking about folding seats and the deep cargo area that was communicated and promoted as a major feature.
b) That clearly wasn't a last minute change.
c) The point was that it's OK to be disappointed.
d) Agreed, the six seat option was most likely an afterthought.
e) Nobody's asking for updated design decisions every step of the way.

I love the Model X overall, but as a Sports Utility Vehicle? Well, sorry but my Model S is more practical for our personal needs.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Pythagorean theorem:

Mattress is 75" long, if cargo bed is 60" then the rise must be 45". This doesn't allow for the thickness of the mattress though.

I'd recommend a futon you can roll up.

I am familiar with Mr. Pythagoras and his works; my fiddle is tuned in Pythagorean perfect fifths...

The operative B dimension (the line along the X axis) is reportedly 80", not the 60" length of the cargo floor but the distance from hatch, over the 2nd row, to the back of the front seats. Rise (A) would not be an issue, since our tilted C is lesser than our B. See?

The limiting factor is thus the width of the rear area, so a queen or full won't wedge in that 45" width -- but a Twin or Twin XL would.

I'll be sending money to the kitty shelter to honor my wager... But not because of length.

Rick