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Remember this is 300 'ideal' miles and in range mode (I think I have this right). standard mode or around 80% of that already gets you down to a 240 and knock off another few percentage points for real world driving gets you closer to 200 miles. If that covers your longest trip, the 300 mile pack might still be the way to go.
Norbert
TSLA will win
... and it seems to result in an (end-user) price of about $550 - $600 per kWh (although it might be a coincidence that both upgrades are 70 miles).
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Don't think so. My home has 200 amp service and, around here, that's normal. Most homes have 100 amps minimum, 150-200 is more common I think.
Jaff
Active Member
Bang on Doug!...We're eliminating one ICE vehicle shortly (courtesy of the Roadster)...we'll sunset the other ICE vehicle when the Model S arrives (now that the 300 mile pack will be available from the get go).
Jaff
Active Member
Agree dsm...if you're driving an EV currently, you know about range reducing events (cold weather, dispatching riff-raff, etc. :wink::biggrin
To me, more range means more "fun" miles per trip, and more, longer range "fun" trips ! :biggrin:
To me, more range means more "fun" miles per trip, and more, longer range "fun" trips ! :biggrin:
kgb
Member
@dsm, your math is right. One other factor to consider is whether you want to charge when you get there. If you need to do a round trip, that cuts the range in half. Suddenly, you can only go 100 miles for a day trip, unless you want to charge when you get there. @dsm knows what it is like here in Texas, they don't like our kind 'round here (EV lovers). There is no place to charge (except home and RV parks). You'd be surprised how quickly you can burn through range. My wife wanted to visit her folks. "Why don't you bring the electric car and show it off to my cousins." Her mom's was 103 miles, and I have 240 miles on a full charge. I was trying to keep up with my wife zipping along at 80 mph (we were late). Suffice it to say, there was no showing off of the car. Had to trickle charge at 110V because I went well beyond half way on the battery. Speed (wind resistance) eats up battery fast. 240 ideal miles was not enough, a 300 miles battery would have got me there and back.
Also, if I had a 300 ideal mile battery (200 real miles), that would mean I could drive to Lake Charles, Austin, and San Antonio without stopping (but I'd have to charge over night if available). I could drive to Dallas, but I'd probably have to drive 50-60 mph. That said, how often do I make a drive to a nearby city... probably once per year (maybe twice). I could rent a car for much less than the cost of a battery, but then I don't get to show off my awesome BEV. Also I'll need to see if the 300 mile battery give better performance.
I priced a full-size car rental. It's about $55/day + gas + unlimited miles at Enterprise. $10,000 for 300 mile battery instead of the 230 mile battery means I could rent a full-sized car for 180 days. It also means I could get more option upgrades. Of course, with the $20,000 you'd save with a 160 mile battery, you could rent a full-sized car for everyday for a year. I've got a lot to think about. I guess I'll have to see what the options price out to be.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Like AnOutsider says, the available power increase will be somewhat offset by the weight increase (although given proportional power increase, the extra power will more than make up for it).
However, if Tesla uses the same PEM/motor sized for the 160 mile version, on all the Model S, then there will be a bottleneck at the PEM/motor and all Model S will essentially perform the same (with the exception of the extra weight). It does present an interesting position, will Tesla bundle a performance upgrade with the extra range, or will it be separate? Given previous history with the Roadster though, it will more likely be a separate "Sport" version with upgraded motor and/or PEM.
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I thought the latest rumour was that all three packs would use the same amount of cells. That more or less levels out any weight differences between the 3 sizes and insures that they can use the same handling characteristics for all three versions. No need to adjust anything either for the few times you rent a heavier battery. This also improves the margin on the 160miles model since you can use 3 generations old cells that should be dirt cheap by 2012. I'm still curious when I with my European P121 and a 160 miles pack will get my car? Or considering I don't know the European price I'm still curious if I can afford it still ?
Cobos
Cobos
300miles pack contra 160miles pack first charging time: you should not think about the charging time. the smaller pack need to be recharged more often and you still have the range limitation. Its true, the higher milage pack need longer to be charged, but you will maintain a higher level of charge by charging every night. But if you need it, you have the higher range. Its more the question, will you be able to recharge the amount of juice you spend every day overnight? its not a question of the size of the pack. But the bigger back will give you the comfort to charge every night and no need for looking for charging between while driving the daily routine. The lifetime of the 300mile pack is double of the 160miles back, because the used hub of the SOC is less, give also less stress to the pack. I estimate 80.000 miles for the 160mile pack and 200.000 miles for the 300miles pack. Even if the 300miles will have only 80% left, it has still the range of the 230miles pack.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I think my plan will be to get the 230 mi pack (so I can spend more on options without my wife killing me)...then upgrade the pack 5 years down the road.
I think I remember reading somewhere that for the Roadster the bottleneck was the motor at low speeds (like up to 30 or 40 mph), but after that the bottle neck was the battery. I remember that I found this interesting because it would mean that off the line the Roadster Sport (with it's upgraded motor) is faster than the regular Roadster, but flooring it on the highway would result in the same acceleration between the two. Does anyone else remember this?
If the same holds true for the Model S, then maybe the higher battery pack models will have better acceleration at speed, but be the same (or slightly slower due to weight increase) acceleration off the line as the smaller battery packs.
Yea, that probably won't fly for me. Part of sell of the car is low maintenance. Buying an expensive car, then having to spend $30k in 5 years, which is as much as our current cars cost new, to upgrade packs, isn't exactly living up to the concept of low maintenance.
I'm still stunned at the 10k bump. It's hard for me to justify that extra expense based on the rarity of my longer trips. But then, it's also hard to justify the 160 version at $60-65k after options that, when not in range mode and/or after some battery degredation, only really has about a 100 mile range. I really want the Model S, but I'm having a hard time finding any combination of price point and range that I can rationalize as a good fit.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
The idea being that in 5-7 years after receiving the car (just under 7-9 years from now), I should be able to get a 300 mi range battery for WAY less than $30K...or perhaps a 500 mi pack.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Since a very-well-equipped signature edition is expected to be around $80K, I'm anticipating that I should be able to get the 230mi pack with a number of nice options for $65-68K after the tax credit. Subtract another $8,000 for fuel savings over 5 years (according to Tesla's figures), and you're not a whole lot different than a decently equipped BMW.
ljbad4life
Member
Wow, the 300 mile pack (being available first) came out of left field. At this point there seems like nothing stopping me from buying one day one. :love:
Agree 100%!
I am now suddenly OK with Signature series. There was no way I was going that route and be stuck with a 230 mile pack.
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