MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

[Dangerous Fish]

I thought the same thing. Then I threw a bunch of money at different pads and rotors and was never happy. Ultimately, I still ended up paying for a BBK but I first flushed $1,500 down the toilet that I will never get back. Not to mention many hours of my time.

Do it once, do it right.

I agree with this. I've been using Carbotech and RB pads and neither are really giving me what I need - consistent, predictable performance during the track day and not too much maintenance in between.
Once you start to wear pads down the heat affects them more because there's less material to dissipate the heat, so I'm now having to deglaze after every track session which is also a pain with the standard calipers because you have to remove them to get to the pads.

I would say moving to a BBK is also dependant on the tracks you visit and how fast/hard a driver you are. I was on track with another P3D for 9 or 10 laps on my local track last week. He had a completely stock brake setup and I had RB 970 pads front and rear & SRF fluid. I was quite surprised when we got back to the pits and he hadn't got the brake temperature warning and said his brakes felt fine. That day, mine were too hot and fading after just 3 hot laps.

The difference was my laptimes were about 10% faster than his, so although he was driving to his current limit, it was still way below the car's limit. So I can see how it may be possible for a completely stock P3D to go on track a few times a year, be driven at 7/10ths and survive, but I'd say most of us on here are more regular track drivers and aiming for 9/10ths+ and to have brakes you can trust 100% of the time is worth spending that extra money on.

 

[mattack4000]

I thought the same thing. Then I threw a bunch of money at different pads and rotors and was never happy. Ultimately, I still ended up paying for a BBK but I first flushed $1,500 down the toilet that I will never get back. Not to mention many hours of my time.

Do it once, do it right.

You can sell the stock front calipers for ~$1,000. So the cost of the BBK is now more like $3,000. The BBK will always be worth 50-75% of what you paid for it. The pads and rotors will need to be replaced less frequently so the running costs are less. But best of all - IT JUST WORKS.

This is why I have a super secret surprise in the mail for my Red 3

I should say it's not about spending money, I just want to spend it at the right place. I am sure the BBK helps, but I first need to narrow down my specific brake issue. I still don't know if it is the pads, fluid boiling or I am overwhelming the brakes. It could very well just be the way the brakes are on these cars. I personally would like more clarity as I don't want to chase after the car.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I should say it's not about spending money, I just want to spend it at the right place. I am sure the BBK helps, but I first need to narrow down my specific brake issue. I still don't know if it is the pads, fluid boiling or I am overwhelming the brakes. It could very well just be the way the brakes are on these cars. I personally would like more clarity as I don't want to chase after the car.

The real issue on the Model 3 is the rotors. But you could replace those with the likes of RB rotors and have spent a good chunk of money which could have gone towards a BBK as @MasterC17 said above.
I have a set of the RB rotors here and I haven't even fitted them because after spending time on track withthe car I've realised they won't be the best solution.
You can put different pads in but you're just putting a sticking plaster on the problem.

 

[mattack4000]

I am not even sure if my current problem is the rotor. Rotor can't be the issue when the pedal is soft when I am on my warmup lap. Somehow the pedal came back slightly the session after. It's a bizarre situation.

I bleed the right side of my car last night, pedal came back up slightly but the pads still don't have as much bite as it did when I first installed it. With my luck, the pedal will go back down after the first turn at the next session.

The real issue on the Model 3 is the rotors. But you could replace those with the likes of RB rotors and have spent a good chunk of money which could have gone towards a BBK as @MasterC17 said above.
I have a set of the RB rotors here and I haven't even fitted them because after spending time on track withthe car I've realised they won't be the best solution.
You can put different pads in but you're just putting a sticking plaster on the problem.

 

[MasterC17]

I am not even sure if my current problem is the rotor. Rotor can't be the issue when the pedal is soft when I am on my warmup lap. Somehow the pedal came back slightly the session after. It's a bizarre situation.

I bleed the right side of my car last night, pedal came back up slightly but the pads still don't have as much bite as it did when I first installed it. With my luck, the pedal will go back down after the first turn at the next session.

It sounds like glazed pads/rotors to me. The problem with the Model 3 brakes is that a 25mm rotor has a really low thermal capacity. They're just too thin for 4,100lbs+. This car should have come with 32mm rotors.

 

[mattack4000]

On a totally separate note, I was talking to Cobalt Friction, they can custom make XR2 pads for our cars if we can get several sets together. I don't know if anyone is interested, but they are $369 for the front set and it takes about 2-3 weeks to make it. Please private message me if interested. I have used XR2 on my other car before, they are equivalent to something like a Carbotech XP10 but they seem to be more rotor friendly.

 

[mattack4000]

It sounds like glazed pads/rotors to me. The problem with the Model 3 brakes is that a 25mm rotor has a really low thermal capacity. They're just too thin for 4,100lbs+. This car should have come with 32mm rotors.

I have a set of unplugged pads, maybe I should slap them on. Doing the front isn't so bad, the rear ones I am not looking forward to doing it again.

 

[MasterC17]

I have a set of unplugged pads, maybe I should slap them on. Doing the front isn't so bad, the rear ones I am not looking forward to doing it again.

I highly doubt the rears are your issue. Even with stock pads the pedal felt fine, though they didn't last long (at all). I've run XT970 and RP2's in the rear and both have held up very well (pacing for 15 track days or more). No glazing. The front axle is the problem. You could try the Unplugged Pads on the front, but I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with the same issue.

 

[destructure00]

I have a set of unplugged pads, maybe I should slap them on. Doing the front isn't so bad, the rear ones I am not looking forward to doing it again.

What do you find challenging about doing the rears? If it's retracting the EPB, that can be done with a 9v battery.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I am not even sure if my current problem is the rotor. Rotor can't be the issue when the pedal is soft when I am on my warmup lap. Somehow the pedal came back slightly the session after. It's a bizarre situation.

I bleed the right side of my car last night, pedal came back up slightly but the pads still don't have as much bite as it did when I first installed it. With my luck, the pedal will go back down after the first turn at the next session.

Bleed them all again and deglaze the pads. That'll fix it temporarily.

 

[mattack4000]

I am looking at the wear on the pads, they seem to be holding fine. I don't think I am overheating to a point where they are starting to have super wear/chunk, I just don't think they have that much bite to start. They look like they have pretty good wear based on what I am seeing. I ran them hard when I was on my hotlap, but I back off them pretty quickly when I am done. I think that helps to prevent cooking the brakes. My last car the brakes could only last 4-6 events, but I also run a lot less lap on the Tesla now.

I highly doubt the rears are your issue. Even with stock pads the pedal felt fine, though they didn't last long (at all). I've run XT970 and RP2's in the rear and both have held up very well (pacing for 15 track days or more). No glazing. The front axle is the problem. You could try the Unplugged Pads on the front, but I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with the same issue.

 

[mattack4000]

What do you find challenging about doing the rears? If it's retracting the EPB, that can be done with a 9v battery.

The first time I did it, I had issue removing the plug and the stupid electronic parking brakes is annoying. I think you helped me figure out how to remove it and it was easier. Still, I hate floating calipers. I just wish for a simple 4 piston caliper where I can slide the pads in and out.

I have 2 bottles of SRF coming. I am hoping it will arrive before Sunday so I can bleed my left side. I will probably do one more event before I swap over to the Unplugged pads.

@mastersc17 I understand feel is very subjective, but it should at least be consistent. I have found this car to not be consistent and that's what worries me. I had a brake failure at the track before, so I am very sensitive to brake problems. I hated the brakes when I got the car, the swap of the pads made it much better, but after just one day at the track I am already a little hesitant about them.

Skip to the 2:30 minute part of the video and watch how the brake temp jumps up and cools down. It's not an absolute number, but a rough estimate on the range of the motion

 

[Dangerous Fish]

You can see the problem clearly. Those estimated temps are fairly accurate. I've compared them to actual temps read off the rotors.
The rotors heat up quickly but cool down very slowly. So you get heat soak and the problem just gets worse on each consecutive lap.
It's not fluid, it's the rotors and pads getting too hot and not having a chance to cool between corners.

 

[mattack4000]

Yes I get that, but it doesn't explain why the brake pedal is spongy going into the first turn

 

[Mash]

RB rotors don't let anything to glaze. They have so sharp edges on slots that they just cut through pads like crazy. The noise from those slots is just to the level it sounds like car is broken. Anyone had the same? Maybe it's not about slots?

 

[Dave EV]

I am not even sure if my current problem is the rotor. Rotor can't be the issue when the pedal is soft when I am on my warmup lap. Somehow the pedal came back slightly the session after. It's a bizarre situation.

Probably not your problem, but have you thought about the MPP Master Cylinder Brace? People rave about it improving initial bite of the brakes by taking out the flex in the firewall.

 

[Mash]

Probably not your problem, but have you thought about the MPP Master Cylinder Brace? People rave about it improving initial bite of the brakes by taking out the flex in the firewall.

Brace is only decreasing travel. Bite or pressure on pedal vs braking force is exactly same.

 

[mattack4000]

Probably not your problem, but have you thought about the MPP Master Cylinder Brace? People rave about it improving initial bite of the brakes by taking out the flex in the firewall.

I have it, the bite is still $hit if you ask me. I might take apart the front tub to see if anything came loose too

 

[destructure00]

RB rotors don't let anything to glaze. They have so sharp edges on slots that they just cut through pads like crazy. The noise from those slots is just to the level it sounds like car is broken. Anyone had the same? Maybe it's not about slots?

I've had pads glaze over with the RB rotors.

 

[Mash]

I've had pads glaze over with the RB rotors.

Do you have noise of slots during hard brake?