Marin Clean Energy Solar Storage Credit

[bmah]

Looking for a sanity check on this...

East Bay Powerwall (3 x Powerwall 2) + Solar (5.8kW) owner, using Marin Clean Energy (MCE) as a community choice aggregator and PG&E for transmission, EV2-A rate plan with NEM 1.0, Powerwalls configured for Time-Based-Control. Solar is generally enough to cover our peak pricing period, except for cloudy days in the winter or hot days in the summer. On cold, clear days in the spring and fall, solar can cover peak and partial peak periods.

I recently got a note from MCE informing me of a solar storage bill credit. Cutting and pasting from the email:

- Complete our application. After we’ve verified your eligibility, you will start receiving MCE’s Solar Storage Credit in 1-2 billing cycles.
- Program your home battery to discharge from 4-9 p.m. and set your battery reserve to no more than 20%, except when preparing for or during a power outage.
- Enjoy a lower electricity bill! $10/month bill credit for storage system capacity from 7-20kWh. $20/month bill credit for storage system capacity over 20kWh.

I looked at the (online) form...it just asks for some basic information about the PG&E account, size and specs of the batteries and solar setup. (Wanted to post a link here but I haven't figured out how to do that without some tracking info in the URL.) Notably, there's doesn't appear to be any requirement to hand over Tesla account credentials or control of the Powerwalls.

The battery settings (discharge from 4-9PM) are basically what TBC tries to do with the current Powerwall parameters I have, with the exception that I usually have the reserve between 25-40% depending on the season. I think I'd be comfortable dropping down to 20% reserve, given that our outage record where I live is greatly improved compared to when we first bought the Powerwalls 5 years ago..

Granted $20/month isn't a huge amount of money, but every little bit helps and it looks like it doesn't require doing anything other than filling in a form and just running the Powerwalls like I do anyways. Am I missing anything? Anyone signed up for this yet?

Thanks for any insights...

Bruce.

 

[holeydonut]

Here’s the link from MCE.

https://www.mcecleanenergy.org/solar-storage-credit/?utm_source=grpcelg&utm_medium=eml&utm_campaign=slrstrgcrdt#eligibility

 

[holeydonut]

Btw I’m on MCE and I’m declining this. They’re not giving you enough money to blast your inverters on full export.

Earlier this year Sunrun gave $750 for like 4 months of participation in a daily VPP. The energy is probably worth over $1 per kWh so you’re kind of getting jobbed if they give you a paltry $20 a month.

 

[charlesj]

That's what it looks like. I as going to suggest to see how much you'd send to the grid for a month and then what that $20 pays per kWh.

 

[bmah]

Hrm interesting. Do you really think this involves exporting to the grid like a VPP? That was not at all the impression I had. I thought it just meant discharging powerwalls to run your house during peak pricing.

EDIT (continuing): I agree if it’s a VPP arrangement this makes less sense. I might inquire to clarify.

Thanks,.

Bruce.

 

[holeydonut]

Hrm interesting. Do you really think this involves exporting to the grid like a VPP? That was not at all the impression I had. I thought it just meant discharging powerwalls to run your house during peak pricing.

EDIT (continuing): I agree if it’s a VPP arrangement this makes less sense. I might inquire to clarify.

Thanks,.

Bruce.

Yeah when I read “Automate your battery to discharge from 4-9 p.m. daily and set your battery reserve to no more than 20%, except when preparing for or during a power outage”… I’m picturing it dumping 15kW.

If simply having self powered mode with a 20% reserve gets me $20 a month, I’m in haha.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

i believe they mean "self powered", not full export. with powerwall you can not go full export with the settings available to us. only a vpp program has access to that.

 

[holeydonut]

Looks like bmah and I are calling MCE tomorrow.

 

[charlesj]

Yeah when I read “Automate your battery to discharge from 4-9 p.m. daily and set your battery reserve to no more than 20%, except when preparing for or during a power outage”… I’m picturing it dumping 15kW.

If simply having self powered mode with a 20% reserve gets me $20 a month, I’m in haha.

Would 20% be enough to self-power from 9PM to next day's charging capability? If drawing from grid overnight will that cost less than that $20/mo?

 

[BGbreeder]

Gosh, it seems as if MCE is asking for an up to 80% discharge 365 days a year for $120 to $240/yr. If MCE discharged daily, that would be less than $0.037/kWh, with all the wear and tear on the owner's equipment.

Reminds me of Barnum & Bailey's door next to the "Egret" cage, labeled "Egress", and a one way door to the outside.

 

[holeydonut]

I'll eat crow... my previous post suggesting this was a VPP was wrong. They just responded to me, and confirmed it is more of a curtailment program (like OhmConnect). Participation in the program will not require someone to export energy to the grid like Sunrun's VPP or do a demand-response like Tesla's VPP.

I'll cut and paste the email and put the picture of the email here as well. Although I am probably still too stupid to fill out the form since it's got lots of words and fields on it. I expect @bmah to have no difficulty getting $20 a month.

Thank you for the clarifying question. The program is set to function as in your later example of "curtailing" use when costs and grid strain are highest by utilizing the energy stored in your battery. This particular program is not a VPP and does not require a customer to release control of their battery to MCE or any other party. The solar storage program also allows customers to change the 20% reserve threshold and 4-9 use during possible power shut off incidents.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best Regards,


Zae Perrin (he/him)
Director of Customer Operations

 

[eaa795]

I signed up. It's an easy $10/month credit just for having batteries and promising to set to 20% reserve. It took several months after applying for the credit to show up.

 

[holeydonut]

@bmah MCE is offering up to $350 to charge at determined times ($25 per month x 12 plus $50 to sign-up). Presumably when you were already charging your Model X. Mercedes and BMW BEVs do not qualify. Sad.

https://www.mcecleanenergy.org/mce-sync/#eligibility?utm_source=mcesync&utm_medium=eml&utm_campaign=n2-solar

Earn $10 per month cash back by charging your EV during low-carbon events, and another $15/month for using home solar to charge your EV.

MCE Sync calculates the best time to charge your vehicle based on:
1. Your electricity rate
2. Solar panel output
3. When greener electricity is available.

 

[wwu123]

@bmah MCE is offering up to $350 to charge at determined times ($25 per month x 12 plus $50 to sign-up). Presumably when you were already charging your Model X. Mercedes and BMW BEVs do not qualify. Sad.

https://www.mcecleanenergy.org/mce-sync/#eligibility?utm_source=mcesync&utm_medium=eml&utm_campaign=n2-solar

Earn $10 per month cash back by charging your EV during low-carbon events, and another $15/month for using home solar to charge your EV.

MCE Sync calculates the best time to charge your vehicle based on:
1. Your electricity rate
2. Solar panel output
3. When greener electricity is available.

One small caveat with the single-purpose apps like the MCE one that need access to your Tesla account - in this case to not just control your car's charging but presumably also to monitor the car's battery level: Often the programmers are just programming to many API's, in this case to the Tesla API, but are oblivious to the impact of actively polling 24x7. The general purpose logging/monitoring apps like TeslaFi and Tessie of course know to avoid that, but these single-purpose apps have such small audiences and budget that it's often overlooked.

So frequently they're written poorly and prevent your car from ever sleeping, and basically your car would be drawing 400W constantly where it possibly might be sleeping 20+ hours/day. With these types of apps, the extra energy drain often directly offsets any energy and dollar savings one is trying to achieve, ironically. I know the first OhmConnect integration with Tesla certainly did that, haven't dared to test it again since. I think the SVCE equivalent app (GridShift, but without any other $ incentives) is reviewed pretty horribly, and rarely updated - I can only expect it will constantly poll the car.

 

[holeydonut]

One small caveat with the single-purpose apps like the MCE one that need access to your Tesla account - in this case to not just control your car's charging but presumably also to monitor the car's battery level: Often the programmers are just programming to many API's, in this case to the Tesla API, but are oblivious to the impact of actively polling 24x7. The general purpose logging/monitoring apps like TeslaFi and Tessie of course know to avoid that, but these single-purpose apps have such small audiences and budget that it's often overlooked.

So frequently they're written poorly and prevent your car from ever sleeping, and basically your car would be drawing 400W constantly where it possibly might be sleeping 20+ hours/day. With these types of apps, the extra energy drain often directly offsets any energy and dollar savings one is trying to achieve, ironically. I know the first OhmConnect integration with Tesla certainly did that, haven't dared to test it again since. I think the SVCE equivalent app (GridShift, but without any other $ incentives) is reviewed pretty horribly, and rarely updated - I can only expect it will constantly poll the car.

Lucky for us @bmah is a mega-techie and will be a great beta tester to look for such poorly written API requests and parasitic negative outcomes / externalities.

 

[wwu123]

Lucky for us @bmah is a mega-techie and will be a great beta tester to look for such poorly written API requests and parasitic negative outcomes / externalities.

I actually stumbled across the MCE app when exploring alternatives to Charge on Solar (since I don't have a Powerwall), even though I'm in SVCE land. Again the SVCE Gridshift is so poorly reviewed, I dare not even try it. So even though the MCE one says you have to be a MCE customer, I wonder if it would work for others if one didn't care about the added account credits/incentives.

I'm not in any rush, it's just exploration for when my NEM1 expires in 9 years - but I do look forward to bmah's guinea pig, err, beta testing ...

 

[bmah]

@bmah MCE is offering up to $350 to charge at determined times ($25 per month x 12 plus $50 to sign-up). Presumably when you were already charging your Model X. Mercedes and BMW BEVs do not qualify. Sad.

https://www.mcecleanenergy.org/mce-sync/#eligibility?utm_source=mcesync&utm_medium=eml&utm_campaign=n2-solar

Earn $10 per month cash back by charging your EV during low-carbon events, and another $15/month for using home solar to charge your EV.

MCE Sync calculates the best time to charge your vehicle based on:
1. Your electricity rate
2. Solar panel output
3. When greener electricity is available.

Thanks, I think I'll pass. My charging situation is a little complex (2 charging spaces, 3 plug-in cars) and I'm too lazy to figure out how their algorithms relate to my various needs and constraints. At least with the other solar+storage credit, I don't need to do anything substantially different from what I'm doing now. This might be a great thing for other people, just not me, so YMMV (literally).

( You-all must think I have an extremely high tolerance for cr*ppy tech or something... )

Bruce.