Looking for insight with M3P driving characteristics

[gsxracer0783]

I appreciate all the help with the graphs and the interpretation of the data. Ive had a few cars tuned and am familiar with logging and looking at data in spreadsheets in a similar manner but never with an EV. Pretty cool that you can get the data from the car without a tuning module.

If the data is there and shows that everything is working there's no arguing with that. But I can say with 100% certainty that the LR I drove had the power come on much more suddenly and wouldn't require much throttle. It was super easy to scoot around in town and traffic. Just a more enjoyable driving experience. This car I have to push the pedal way more to get the car to move similar.

Its kind of like my turbo 4 cyl cars compared to the V8 cars of having to rev the turbo out to get to the powerband, and the V8 having the torque right off the bat. Even though the cars can make similar power they make them in a different way. Thats how this feels. Like my car is the turbo 4 and the LR I drove was more like a V8 in this analogy.

When it comes down to it my wife and I really liked the way the LR drove and both preferred the power delivery of it. I have a LR and a P lined up in the next week to test drive for comparison. Thanks again for the help with all this so far. Have learned alot and have never had a performance oriented EV so its had me out of my element not being able to know where to start and what to look for

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Are you comparing like with like when you had it? You can't know because you didn't know the temperature of the battery when you drove it.
You have to be able to measure 'instant'. unless you can put a data logger in both cars and compare the data, it's all subjective and based on how you felt at the time and what the conditions were like.
It's possible that traction control is preventing your M3P from accelerating as fast in the early stages than the loaner was, but that's just a guess.
The bottom line is, the M3P has more power and will be faster than the LR if EVERYTHING else is equal. That is a fact.
I have both models and I've done a lot of data capture with them over the years. I do know what I'm talking about in this respect.

 

[arekux]

Are you comparing like with like when you had it? You can't know because you didn't know the temperature of the battery when you drove it.
You have to be able to measure 'instant'. unless you can put a data logger in both cars and compare the data, it's all subjective and based on how you felt at the time and what the conditions were like.
It's possible that traction control is preventing your M3P from accelerating as fast in the early stages than the loaner was, but that's just a guess.
The bottom line is, the M3P has more power and will be faster than the LR if EVERYTHING else is equal. That is a fact.
I have both models and I've done a lot of data capture with them over the years. I do know what I'm talking about in this respect.

If the LR had acceleration boost, they are identical to P3D after 60mph, also 0-60 on boosted LR is about 3.4-3.5 with rollout so it’s actually close on the street maybe not on drag strip. I bet LR had warmed up battery and charged over 80%. I get around 3.5s 0-60 on my LR with AB with around 75-80%, mine is 2018 with 85k mi. P3D main advantage is 0-60 which should always be faster than LR unless soc and battery level is low.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Agreed. Bottom line is if you prefer the LR don't waste money on the P!
Especially if you never intend to take it on track.

 

[gsxracer0783]

Battery temp I have no idea but charge was more in the 70s on the LR and I did supercharge it twice since it was free for me to do so. Otherwise outdoor temps have been the same.

Honestly I preferred getting a performance because I sold my Corvette earlier this year and figured extra acceleration would fill some of that void. But the real reason we got this car was because we got the color combo we wanted for the best price I could find. Cheaper than LR cars we looked at.

The market for these cars is all over and most people were asking crazy prices and wouldn't budge. We got this car with 27k miles and the white exterior, white interior we wanted. Plus it came with a spare level 2 Tesla charger, another 110v charger, windows and roof panels tinted for 90% heat rejection, weathertech floormats, window edge visors, Hansshow swivel mount for the screen and the rear 7.2 inch display for the kids.

He just had new tires put on the week we bought it too. It was also the best condition out of all we looked at. I ended up getting the car for $34k and felt after looking for 2 months it was the best deal in my area. I drove 5 hours for the car but maybe you guys have some insight into that price and if it was a good one or not.

Very happy with the car itself this was just the first time I have driven 2 model 3s back to back and was surprised they could feel that different.

 

[gsxracer0783]

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Battery temp I have no idea but charge was more in the 70s on the LR and I did supercharge it twice since it was free for me to do so. Otherwise outdoor temps have been the same.

Honestly I preferred getting a performance because I sold my Corvette earlier this year and figured extra acceleration would fill some of that void. But the real reason we got this car was because we got the color combo we wanted for the best price I could find. Cheaper than LR cars we looked at.

The market for these cars is all over and most people were asking crazy prices and wouldn't budge. We got this car with 27k miles and the white exterior, white interior we wanted. Plus it came with a spare level 2 Tesla charger, another 110v charger, windows and roof panels tinted for 90% heat rejection, weathertech floormats, window edge visors, Hansshow swivel mount for the screen and the rear 7.2 inch display for the kids.

He just had new tires put on the week we bought it too. It was also the best condition out of all we looked at. I ended up getting the car for $34k and felt after looking for 2 months it was the best deal in my area. I drove 5 hours for the car but maybe you guys have some insight into that price and if it was a good one or not.

Very happy with the car itself this was just the first time I have driven 2 model 3s back to back and was surprised they could feel that different.

So supercharged means the battery would have been warm and >70% will give you a lot more power than 49%.
That's why they felt different. If you timed the LR it may very well have been faster and felt more responsive than the runs you did yesterday.
If you're going to do another back to back, get them both on the supercharger for at least 25 minutes and get them both over 90% charge.

 

[Lindenwood]

If the LR had acceleration boost, they are identical to P3D after 60mph,

While you can find random YouTube videos to support any point, the numbers don’t quite agree…

 

[dsgerbc]

50% SOC vs 70% SOC shouldn't feel any different at launch. A warm battery, however, would feel faster.
One can precondition the battery at home, either via the scheduled departure time, or by navigating to the nearest supercharger. For the latter one would have to sit in the car while the battery warms up.

Is it possible that the LR and the P could have different throttle pedal mappings? Never drove a LR, so no clue.

Anyway, a more progressive throttle mapping is better anyway, you don't want the car to give you 100% at 20% pedal press. The latter may feel more lively, until you are in a situation where you have to carefully manage the amount of go.

I'd try those 0-60 acceleration runs again, this time purposefully stabbing the throttle. If you can the throttle input to ramp up to 100% within 0.2seconds, you're fine. Otherwise, there may be something going on with how fast your car reacts to pedal inputs, which will be something tangible to bring up with Tesla.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

The previous post pretty much nails it with describing that if feels like the car is fighting against something. Feels exactly like that. The loaner we had just freewheeled and seemed to have barely any rolling resistance. As soon as I let off the throttle the car just wants to stop. Ill have to check the brakes when we get home. That actually makes sense.

What you described in this post seems to me to be that you were getting full regen with the P but a lot less regen with the LR.
Could be because the LR was almost at 100% charge, so regen was limited or non-existent.

From the data I can see nothing unusual as I said before. It's just that you've been comparing apples with oranges.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

With so many chargers, why is your battery always dead?

On my 2021 the acceleration difference between 100% SOC and 96% is noticeable, and anything below 90% is very noticeable. My logs show modest SOC dependencies with peak power ranging from 375kW to 420kW, which is only a difference of 10%, but my butt-dyno says that this matters a lot when you integrate the area under the curve.

Still, LR's always feel sluggish to me but I've never driven one with Boost. Maybe the Boosted pedal mapping is extra spicy to make people feel like they got their money's worth? Note that they also use different battery chemistries which may perform better in the cold. And again, don't overlook tires. If you have some low traction tires on there the car will figure it out and dial back the power accordingly.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I have a M3P and a M3LR with 'boost'. The M3P is faster/quicker when everything else is equal. Carry on debating it if you like.
Once you live with a particular car for a while you understand the nuances. People generally are way too eager to leap on the internet and express their opinions without doing the research first. That's all this is.

 

[E90alex]

Note that they also use different battery chemistries which may perform better in the cold.

This is incorrect. LR didn’t get a different battery until 2023 so 2020 LR vs 2021 P have the same or similar Panasonic battery.

 

[dsgerbc]

the acceleration difference between 100% SOC and 96% is noticeable, and anything below 90% is very noticeable.

Now that's a finely tuned butt dyno.

 

[gsxracer0783]

If we aren't going anywhere and are just doing our day to day driving I only charge the car to 60%. I also only charge it at night when its $.07 a kw. We got by on a Chevy Volt with around 60 miles of charge for years and never ran out in our day to day driving. I got into EVs with a more budget mindset especially when gas was $5+ a gallon.

Got the Bolt and just never charged it fully because we never used all of the range and if we took trips to the areas we go to, there's almost always a free charger we plug into. Theres actually about 6 just in our town.

Also read that the less high you charge the battery the longer the life. If 80% compared to 100% is better for the battery, 60% compared to 80% must be even better. At least thats how I've viewed it with the Tesla. We rarely will use more than 20% a day. Feel free to let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

That's why your tests fall short of the loaner. It was charged higher. So you'll have to be satisfied with reduced performance if you want to keep your car at a lower SoC.

 

[Izzyz28]

When the battery is low on charge or cold(normal pre-conditioning does jack squat for performance), your car is down a good 100+ horsepower and the tip-in feels fairly flat. Go charge it to 100% at a Supercharger, then stand on it, and I mean stand on it, stomp the accelerator through the floor. I can't believe this carried on for 5 pages with the car being cold and run at half-charge. I charge mine to 90%+ every day and enjoy it, no reason to putt-putt around in a P trying to be a miser.

 

[gsxracer0783]

Ive only been in a Tesla for going on 4 weeks now so I just dont have alot of experience with these cars which is why I came here. Every car I have gotten into the most education ive gotten on the car is time spent with it, which is very limited thus far with this car, and the forums with everyone elses experience. Like I said before I appreciate all of the help with learning about this track mode and data collections.

Huge thanks for spending your time doing this DangerousFish. I will start charging the car to 80% and see what differences I notice. When it comes to the debate of charging to a lower state vs higher state is there any supporting evidence that charging to a lesser rate than 80% is adventageous for the battery? Im probably going to have the car for a year or two so not trying to obsess over trying to make it last forever, just find a happy medium that works for my situation and gives me peace of mind I am at least caring for the car to my abilities.

On a side note I was also told by people at the Tesla service center and a few other Tesla owners that its good to run the battery down to 1% or 0% periodically to establish the bottom of the battery. They also said an occasional "deep sleep" is good for batteries as well. What are your thought on this?

Charge it to 90% run it as hard as I want and dont think about it? Not worth even thinking about?

 

[Apprunner]

Ive only been in a Tesla for going on 4 weeks now so I just dont have alot of experience with these cars which is why I came here. Every car I have gotten into the most education ive gotten on the car is time spent with it, which is very limited thus far with this car, and the forums with everyone elses experience. Like I said before I appreciate all of the help with learning about this track mode and data collections.

Huge thanks for spending your time doing this DangerousFish. I will start charging the car to 80% and see what differences I notice. When it comes to the debate of charging to a lower state vs higher state is there any supporting evidence that charging to a lesser rate than 80% is adventageous for the battery? Im probably going to have the car for a year or two so not trying to obsess over trying to make it last forever, just find a happy medium that works for my situation and gives me peace of mind I am at least caring for the car to my abilities.

On a side note I was also told by people at the Tesla service center and a few other Tesla owners that its good to run the battery down to 1% or 0% periodically to establish the bottom of the battery. They also said an occasional "deep sleep" is good for batteries as well. What are your thought on this?

Charge it to 90% run it as hard as I want and dont think about it? Not worth even thinking about?

You just opened up a can of worms on the whole battery degradation discussion

There is actually a huge thread on the Batteries & Charging subforum (Model 3) that discusses the optimum SoC to reduce degradation. Lots of scientific articles and lab tests conducted so I encourage you to go to that subforum and peruse. Seems like most lab tests center around 55% SoC as a good line in the sand that reduces battery degradation while giving you good daily range (at the cost of performance of course).

I'll let you make your own judgements by exploring that subforum.

 

[E90alex]

My LR still feels very responsive in the cold and low battery and there’s no perceived throttle/input lag.