I have no doubt you can leave a fully charged MS unplugged. I would not do it, but I am sure it can be done.
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I have no doubt you can leave a fully charged MS unplugged. I would not do it, but I am sure it can be done.
I agree. The owner's manual that came with my Leaf is more complete and details how and when the battery heater comes on, and what to do if the heater causes the battery to run low (battery is allowed to freeze; you have to tow car to a warm garage to thaw out before charging).
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I would not make the judgement that it's not possible to do that just based on the performance at the top end of the pack. What happens at lower SOCs may not necessarily be the same (it likely isn't). The BMS may certainly purposefully drain the top end of the pack because it's bad for long term battery life to be kept at high SOCs for extended periods of time. I know the Roadster's BMS did that (the top 50% SOC is purposefully drained MUCH faster than the bottom 50% SOC).
Another thing that needs to be understood is that the battery will not be damaged by cold weather if left alone (at worse, it needs external thawing, see tezco's example with the Leaf). It will only be damaged if you attempt to charge the battery while it is cold (which is why regen is disabled or reduced when the battery is cold and the onboard charger will not charge the battery before warming it up).
I do agree however, that the manual should be more clear on this. Right now it completely ignores what happens when the temperature management is on (giving only a 1% per day figure).
who said anything about not plugging it in?
of course plug it in. NO ONE, anywhere on this board i don't think, is debating the correctness of plugging the car in, for all intents and purposes, every night.
the question was, is there any sense/use/helpfulness-to-battery in not only plugging in, but also making sure it gets driven and doesn't just sit there week after week? in some cases it may not be possible, but where it is possible i assume this would be better for the battery, to have some drain every now and again. but, i don't know, no one here seems to know, what exactly the model s does to drain/recharge the battery over longer periods of idle time. so the questions are there, because we don't know how extensive the battery health algorithm is. that's why i posed the question, and asked for thoughts, hopefully from some roadster peeps who may have more experience with what tesla does to a battery when the car is sitting in storage...
thx
Some people actually have purposed not plugging in every night saying 'I only drive 20 miles a day and want to keep the SOC around 50% so I'll only plug in every few days' or something similar.
The Model S doesn't have a storage mode as well.
The Model S doesn't have a storage mode as well.
Why would I want to out think the TESLA engineers? And, what if I needed to travel another 100 miles, but I forgot to plug it in??????
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I know. There is no benefit to cycling the battery. The way to make a cell last as long as possible is to discharge it to around 40-50%, take all loads off it, and store it in a cool place, probably a bit above freezing.
Now there are probably a number of reasons that Tesla doesn't do this, or something close to it. They have to balance extending calendar life with keeping the vehicle in a usable state, so they say keep it plugged in. It's the best thing they can recommend, but not necessarily the absolute best thing for the pack. Personally with my driving habits I would probably charge only after I used around 150 miles of range, but I don't drive much and I've never had to take an emergency long distance trip and can't imagine ever having to do so. I also have a second vehicle. There are plenty of test protocols that show extended cell cycling life by only using the middle portion of SOC. This keeps the cell voltage lower which preserves the electrolyte solvents. You do need to go above that once in a while to keep the cells balanced, since that only happens near the end of a charge cycle.
I'm not recommending anyone go against what Tesla is recommending, I'm just explaining some of the mechanisms of cell behavior.
Back to the "plugging in at the airport" point:
The good news is that my airport (Logan, Boston's primary airport) does indeed have J1772 chargers in all of the parking garages.
The bad news is that, once charging is complete, the Model S / ChargePoint handshake is broken. Consequently, the MS won't be able to draw additional power on subsequent days.
Any ideas of how to address this problem? Seems odd that, even though physically plugged in, I could still end up with a low SOC returning from a trip.
The good news is that my airport (Logan, Boston's primary airport) does indeed have J1772 chargers in all of the parking garages.
The bad news is that, once charging is complete, the Model S / ChargePoint handshake is broken. Consequently, the MS won't be able to draw additional power on subsequent days.
Any ideas of how to address this problem? Seems odd that, even though physically plugged in, I could still end up with a low SOC returning from a trip.
The obvious solution to airports is lots of 110V outlets. Unless you're on a single-day trip you'll get substantial additional range while you're away. There's no handshake required so the car can warm or top up itself as necessary. And they are dirt cheap to install.
This. The PHX airport has Blink stations. But the way they charge fees, it would only make sense for people to use if they are picking up or dropping off passengers. Cuz if you left your car plugged in to the station on a 3 day trip, you'd be charged $72 ($1/hr) at least. Even if it wasn't drawing any power from the station.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Very interesting! What is your Firmware version? What happened after you had driven for a while or in other words did you get the feeling that the 137 miles shown when you started driving from the airport was correct, or was the SOC in reality higher and this became evident as the battery warmed up?
I don't know how to determine my Firmware version, but "About" says software 1.15.14
The 137 mile estimate seemed right, as it declined at a normal rate as I drove, never increasing, stopping, or slowing.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I wonder if Tesla could enable an "airport" charging mode, where current levels are very low so the car is always "charging" and never ends the charge? Or maybe a software change that keeps the handshake alive even when current flow stops?
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Completely agreed. Plug In America works hard to point out where 110V outlets work (places where you charge for a long time, like the workplace and airports), and has been working on getting the DOE to encourage this. Few EVSE makers even have a 110V product, so as you can imagine most sales efforts are for L2 charging, and many site hosts (who tend to contact EVSE makers rather than owners) don't even realize that 110V outlets are a possibility.
There is supposed to be a big announcement this month that will target some high-return charging issues, and this should be one of them.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Apparently not. I freely stipulate that I'm more than likely not as smart or educated as at least 95% of the folks on this forum. However, and even after reading posts on SOC voraciously; I still don't see how I would risk this without a lot more data. I'm certain there will be more data. Right now it seems as though the answer to the question of whether or not you can park the S at the airport for 2 weeks should be no, maybe, it depends, I wouldn't risk it, we're not sure. Definitely not a blanket yes in my mind.
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