Like I said earlier I'd personally consider that worth it but many people who are more practical than I am will opt for the 70D. All I'm saying is that I can understand for some how they will not be able to justify a $10K difference for just a small increase in range. They need to make the mid level Model S more compelling IMHO either with a price adjustment or a range increase.
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Is the 85D worth the additional $10k over the 70D?
- Thread starter chriSharek
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- 70d cost Model S Performance Range
Like I said earlier I'd personally consider that worth it but many people who are more practical than I am will opt for the 70D. All I'm saying is that I can understand for some how they will not be able to justify a $10K difference for just a small increase in range. They need to make the mid level Model S more compelling IMHO either with a price adjustment or a range increase.
That analogy is wrong on so many levels. I am coming from a BMW household. I am currently finishing up a least on an X5, before that it was a 5 series. I went with 70D and it beats both of the BMWs and any other cars I have driven in the past.
To the OP, take a seat drive and see if you notice the added performance.
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I am glad you like the 85, but you don't know if the 70D will charge slower. No 70D were delivered yet so you're making a claim that is not based on anything more than a guess.
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If it was up to me (and that is the exact same choice i faced recently) I'd go with the upgrades which is what I did. The range and performance differences are minimal and the upgrades make the car that much better..
I look at it this way. For longer trips over a few hundred miles, I prefer to rent a car and put the extra mileage on the rental or fly and rent a call locally. For the $10k I am saving, I can get 200 rental days at $50/day which is average IMO. Also consider the higher resale value lower mileage is going to get you...
For daily driving 240miles is PLENTY!
For daily driving 240miles is PLENTY!
Actually now that I read some more data, I think I might just splurge on the 85D. Here is why:
1) base on this thread, it looks like the 70D will still do the 10%-80% in 40 minutes, equating to 192 miles range at 80% charge. This means you get an EXTRA 21 miles between the 85D and 70D which you can use to a) drive faster, b) drive further at slower speed, c) charge in 35 minutes vs 40 or what not, or d) use for better climate control (AC/Heater/etc).
70D owners, what's your supercharging speed (or reliable data from Tesla)?
2) base on this thread, it looks like the 70D is more efficient in the city but less on the highway. I don't know why anyone would care about city efficiency when you have a tesla. If you have a LEAF or other city BEV, then I would understand you optimizing for city driving because you are bounded by the city. But you have a tesla, your real concern is really HWY driving! If you are in the city, chances are you are close to plugs/superchargers and can easily get charge. For me I would rather have max highway efficiency because right now, that is my limitation. Who knows, if one drives the 85D only on the highway, they might get better than the EPA range. The 70D would increase my efficiency over the lifetime of the car because the car will mostly be driven in the city. However for the time when I need it to be efficient, i.e. on long road trip, it will perform worst. I think this seals the deal about 70D or 85D for me. 85D is most likely the way to go for me now.
70D vs 85D MPGe | Forums | Tesla Motors
Gas Mileage of 2015 Tesla Model S
The 2nd reason is really what sealed the deal for me. I understand why tesla chose to make the 70D more city efficient, but I think it's for all the wrong reason. Sure the car might get EPA 240, but we know it could've had more HWY range if they optimized for highway and sacrifice the city a bit.
Base on these broken out numbers, the max EPA HWY range for each car is:
70D HWY range - 201.5 miles
85D HWY range - 252.34 miles
85 HWY range - 218.24 miles
60 HWY range - 162.86 miles
here is how I calculated:
(Battery Capacity * 95%)/(EPA KWh/miles).
so far example:
(85KWh * 0.95)/(0.32KWh/mile)
5% for reserve capacity which tesla does not let you use. I don't know if it's 5% but I think this is a good number to use.
If you are looking at the numbers, you can see you are more than 40 miles difference between the 85D and the 70D. More than the EPA 270 vs 240.
1) base on this thread, it looks like the 70D will still do the 10%-80% in 40 minutes, equating to 192 miles range at 80% charge. This means you get an EXTRA 21 miles between the 85D and 70D which you can use to a) drive faster, b) drive further at slower speed, c) charge in 35 minutes vs 40 or what not, or d) use for better climate control (AC/Heater/etc).
70D owners, what's your supercharging speed (or reliable data from Tesla)?
2) base on this thread, it looks like the 70D is more efficient in the city but less on the highway. I don't know why anyone would care about city efficiency when you have a tesla. If you have a LEAF or other city BEV, then I would understand you optimizing for city driving because you are bounded by the city. But you have a tesla, your real concern is really HWY driving! If you are in the city, chances are you are close to plugs/superchargers and can easily get charge. For me I would rather have max highway efficiency because right now, that is my limitation. Who knows, if one drives the 85D only on the highway, they might get better than the EPA range. The 70D would increase my efficiency over the lifetime of the car because the car will mostly be driven in the city. However for the time when I need it to be efficient, i.e. on long road trip, it will perform worst. I think this seals the deal about 70D or 85D for me. 85D is most likely the way to go for me now.
70D vs 85D MPGe | Forums | Tesla Motors
Gas Mileage of 2015 Tesla Model S
The 2nd reason is really what sealed the deal for me. I understand why tesla chose to make the 70D more city efficient, but I think it's for all the wrong reason. Sure the car might get EPA 240, but we know it could've had more HWY range if they optimized for highway and sacrifice the city a bit.
Base on these broken out numbers, the max EPA HWY range for each car is:
70D HWY range - 201.5 miles
85D HWY range - 252.34 miles
85 HWY range - 218.24 miles
60 HWY range - 162.86 miles
here is how I calculated:
(Battery Capacity * 95%)/(EPA KWh/miles).
so far example:
(85KWh * 0.95)/(0.32KWh/mile)
5% for reserve capacity which tesla does not let you use. I don't know if it's 5% but I think this is a good number to use.
If you are looking at the numbers, you can see you are more than 40 miles difference between the 85D and the 70D. More than the EPA 270 vs 240.
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IF this is the case, then why not just get a BMW i3 or some other BEV. They will most likely satisfy your range and when you don't have enough, either 1) get the REX version of the i3 or 2) find a SAE combo charger for fast charging. It will definitely save you money over time even if you have to pay for those electrons.
Yes the Model S is a nice car, but if I was in your situation, I would be completely fine with some cheaper EV.
For me the ability to do long range travel and quick charging is what really makes the Model S appealing.
Yes the Model S is a nice car, but if I was in your situation, I would be completely fine with some cheaper EV.
For me the ability to do long range travel and quick charging is what really makes the Model S appealing.
Range, Performance, and really only a 10% extra cost. The 85D is the way to go IMO. I'm changing my signature line right now . . .
Hey, just circling back - I'm sold on the SAS. I'm going to order on Saturday for my birthday!
Thanks for all the input!
ahurst
Member
Hey, just circling back - I'm sold on the SAS. I'm going to order on Saturday for my birthday!
Congrats
brucet999
Active Member
Hey, just circling back - I'm sold on the SAS. I'm going to order on Saturday for my birthday!
I give up. What is SAS? Are you scheduling a flight to Scandinavia?
You'll love anything, but here's my opinion as an owner since December 2012: get the 85D for the range, not for the perf or charging speed. In my opinion (it's worth what you paid ), the minimal car for you is: 85d, pano roof, tech package.
Acceleration or speed: not worth the upgrade to 85d
I started with an original S85, and recently traded in for an s85D. The D is faster than the original s85 but the S85 was plenty fast, faster than almost all other cars, especially considering it's incredible acceleration from start. The 70d specs match the s85, so perf is just not a reason.
Charging speed: crazily not worth it.
People complain about the different charging speeds, and even on the 85 worry about what version battery pack they have. Generally it's only going to make a few minutes of difference, so is 10 minutes of your time worth $10,000? Not to me.
Range: definitely worth the upgrade to the 85.
I'm so happy I got the 85, when even the salesmen were telling me that I should get the 60. The range is the most important factor. When you go on your first long trip, that extra range for piece of mind is huge.
Pano roof - if you live in a place where the weather is every nice, which I suppose is everywhere, you'll love the pano. Even in Seattle it's worth having.
Tech package - you want that for the self driving features coming soon. I would have dropped the electronic tail gate that seems almost pointless.
Options I wouldn't get again:
I had the air suspension on my original car and the new one. I probably wouldn't get it, as it just seems not important enough.
upgraded radio - I didn't get it on my first one, I got it this time, I probably wouldn't get it again. Unless you are a true audiophile (I'm far from it), there seems little reason to get it.
21" wheels - this seems to be actively a bad idea, probably lowering value, based on the frequency of flat tires and rim breaks.
The original poster in this thread was going to get different hubs but 19". That just seems like a waste, use that money toward the 85 for more range!
), the minimal car for you is: 85d, pano roof, tech package.Acceleration or speed: not worth the upgrade to 85d
I started with an original S85, and recently traded in for an s85D. The D is faster than the original s85 but the S85 was plenty fast, faster than almost all other cars, especially considering it's incredible acceleration from start. The 70d specs match the s85, so perf is just not a reason.
Charging speed: crazily not worth it.
People complain about the different charging speeds, and even on the 85 worry about what version battery pack they have. Generally it's only going to make a few minutes of difference, so is 10 minutes of your time worth $10,000? Not to me
. Range: definitely worth the upgrade to the 85.
I'm so happy I got the 85, when even the salesmen were telling me that I should get the 60. The range is the most important factor. When you go on your first long trip, that extra range for piece of mind is huge.
Pano roof - if you live in a place where the weather is every nice, which I suppose is everywhere, you'll love the pano. Even in Seattle it's worth having.
Tech package - you want that for the self driving features coming soon. I would have dropped the electronic tail gate that seems almost pointless.
Options I wouldn't get again:
I had the air suspension on my original car and the new one. I probably wouldn't get it, as it just seems not important enough.
upgraded radio - I didn't get it on my first one, I got it this time, I probably wouldn't get it again. Unless you are a true audiophile (I'm far from it), there seems little reason to get it.
21" wheels - this seems to be actively a bad idea, probably lowering value, based on the frequency of flat tires and rim breaks.
The original poster in this thread was going to get different hubs but 19". That just seems like a waste, use that money toward the 85 for more range!
You'll love anything, but here's my opinion as an owner since December 2012: get the 85D for the range, not for the perf or charging speed. In my opinion (it's worth what you paid
Acceleration or speed: not worth the upgrade to 85d
I started with an original S85, and recently traded in for an s85D. The D is faster than the original s85 but the S85 was plenty fast, faster than almost all other cars, especially considering it's incredible acceleration from start. The 70d specs match the s85, so perf is just not a reason.
Charging speed: crazily not worth it.
People complain about the different charging speeds, and even on the 85 worry about what version battery pack they have. Generally it's only going to make a few minutes of difference, so is 10 minutes of your time worth $10,000? Not to me
Range: definitely worth the upgrade to the 85.
I'm so happy I got the 85, when even the salesmen were telling me that I should get the 60. The range is the most important factor. When you go on your first long trip, that extra range for piece of mind is huge.
Pano roof - if you live in a place where the weather is every nice, which I suppose is everywhere, you'll love the pano. Even in Seattle it's worth having.
Tech package - you want that for the self driving features coming soon. I would have dropped the electronic tail gate that seems almost pointless.
Options I wouldn't get again:
I had the air suspension on my original car and the new one. I probably wouldn't get it, as it just seems not important enough.
upgraded radio - I didn't get it on my first one, I got it this time, I probably wouldn't get it again. Unless you are a true audiophile (I'm far from it), there seems little reason to get it.
21" wheels - this seems to be actively a bad idea, probably lowering value, based on the frequency of flat tires and rim breaks.
The original poster in this thread was going to get different hubs but 19". That just seems like a waste, use that money toward the 85 for more range!
Great thoughts! Thanks! I'm with you on the 19"s; tech package/auto pilot features; pano roof (I'm in FL). I'm debating right now between the SAS and the Premium Audio. I can add some serious audio for $2k, so I think I'm going with the SAS. It should also add to resale value too - but I hope to keep it a while. We'll see.
beeeerock
Active Member
If you're thinking about resale value, recognize that the SAS might be a feature or it might turn out to be an Achilles heel. Only time will tell. However, if you put the value of the SAS into a good Xpel wrap or equivalent, pristine paint at resale *will* have some value!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I agree on the SAS but wraps may also be an Achilles' heel years down the road...
Paint Armor removal experience???
Good thoughts too. I'll be opti-coating my baby when she gets home.
Again, I think the geofencing with the SAS is worth the upgrade cost.
Back to the OP - I'm completely sold on the 85D now - I haven't even driven one. I drove the 70D - plenty fast. i can't wait to feel the 85D and I'm going to purposely NOT drive one until it's mine!
Again, I think the geofencing with the SAS is worth the upgrade cost.
Back to the OP - I'm completely sold on the 85D now - I haven't even driven one. I drove the 70D - plenty fast. i can't wait to feel the 85D and I'm going to purposely NOT drive one until it's mine!
Tellotes
Member
Iam in the same boat right now today is my last day thought it was last night at midnight, But looks like I have the rest of the day today! If I am going to keep this car for 10+ years with battery degradation being a concern is why considering the 85D might be a good middle point on range. Wanted to stay as close as possible to 80K AND I am definitely not rich, but this getting to be a really hard call. I am going to a showroom in Atlanta right now to test it out .....We will see!!!!!
Modest range boost wasn't worth the money for me since 95% of the time I drive under 50 miles per day. Certainly I can understand "range is king" for folks who use the car differently. I was worried a bit that the 70D was going to feel sluggish - I need not have worried about that. It's at least as quick as the BMW M3 I used to own, and that's plenty quick enough for me!
vitaliy
Member
Poll results are off, because it assumes that for extra $10,000 everyone has to work same amount of time. But it's not the case. Some of us can make $10,000 in aftertax savings within couple of days, and some need few months... Basically the more person makes, the easier it is to justify higher price.
CO2Saver
Member
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