Installed the Fuel Shark Device. Would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends.

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ My dream is the P85D, but for the time being I cannot afford it. Hope that I will manage to buy the Model S soon.

Raffy,

In order for you to reach this goal I would argue that one constructive thing going forward is to try and appear as competent as you possibly can in the eyes of your peers. Do you ever give co-workers or people who you could come to interact with in a professional way a ride with your car?

Given the feedback in this thread (!)... What do you think you project about yourself towards for example a professional co-worker if you have the 'Fuel Shark' in your 12V outlet while doing so?

 

[Electroman]

There is a new device out there, ElectroPure (TM), that plugs into your Tesla charge port and is designed to weed out dirty electrons coming from dirty sources like coal and oil. It works using a Quantum nano magnetic resonance technology, that is specifically tuned for a Model S. Sorry no such luck for Roadster owners yet.

It works on the basic well known principle, first postulated in 1948 and later experimentally proved in 1983 by a well known French physicist, that an electron produced from a chemical reaction or plain old combustion has half quanta spin higher than the electrons from fusion, wind and sunlight energy (aka renewables). (you can read more about this phenomenon here) This device has a unique patented mechanism that uses this property to attract those electrons to a resonance capacitor and then sequester them away from entering the car battery. Real world tests have shown an increase in range of 25 to 30% using this device. You can read testimonials from real world users here

Click here for only $29.99 or 4 units for $99.99.

 

[Johan]

There is no possible way this circuit can do anything useful across a 12V automotive battery, other than emit a soothing blue light.

But it looks sooo soothing

Also, before anyone comes to Raffy's defence again in this thread please bear in mind that he started the thread and that the title of the thread is "... Would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends". So Raffy, I think that concencus opinion is quite clear and I'm sorry but I have to agree with Swedish Advocate upthread that it does kind of reflect poorly on you if you keep pursuing this idea.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

But it looks sooo soothing

Also, before anyone comes to Raffy's defence again in this thread please bear in mind that he started the thread and that the title of the thread is "... Would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends". So Raffy, I think that concencus opinion is quite clear and I'm sorry but I have to agree with Swedish Advocate upthread that it does kind of reflect poorly on you if you keep pursuing this idea.

As I said I didn't do any study about this device. I was just testing it. IMO you are reading too much in this thread.

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View attachment 65084

As I said this circuit could be a simple representation that doesn't describe exactly the electric circuit because of distributed impedances that can certainly exist also at low frequency. That's why I wanted to test the circuit for real.

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Raffy,

In order for you to reach this goal I would argue that one constructive thing going forward is to try and appear as competent as you possibly can in the eyes of your peers. Do you ever give co-workers or people who you could come to interact with in a professional way a ride with your car?

Given the feedback in this thread (!)... What do you think you project about yourself towards for example a professional co-worker if you have the 'Fuel Shark' in your 12V outlet while doing so?

How you can say this? Did you read my posts? Did you see that I rose the matter of distributed impedances that can change the behaviour of the circuit in real circumstances?
Please read better my posts.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

How you can say this? Did you read my posts? Did you see that I rose the matter of distributed impedances that can change the behaviour of the circuit in real circumstances?
Please read better my posts.

I've read this entire thread. And that is rather far from the most productive thing I've ever done.

Based on that, and your thread title: "Installed the Fuel Shark Device. Would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends.", I gave you one of my opinions.

 

[liuping]

There is a new device out there, ElectroPure (TM), that plugs into your Tesla charge port and is designed to weed out dirty electrons coming from dirty sources like coal and oil. It works using a Quantum nano magnetic resonance technology, that is specifically tuned for a Model S. Sorry no such luck for Roadster owners yet.

It works on the basic well known principle, first postulated in 1948 and later experimentally proved in 1983 by a well known French physicist, that an electron produced from a chemical reaction or plain old combustion has half quanta spin higher than the electrons from fusion, wind and sunlight energy (aka renewables). (you can read more about this phenomenon here) This device has a unique patented mechanism that uses this property to attract those electrons to a resonance capacitor and then sequester them away from entering the car battery. Real world tests have shown an increase in range of 25 to 30% using this device. You can read testimonials from real world users here

Click here for only $29.99 or 4 units for $99.99.

If you modify the device so it can be plugged into any household outlet and reverse process to sequester the green electrons and pass only the dirty ones on, you could make a fortune selling to the coal rolling crowd...

 

[raincityjerry]

This is also from America; "There's one born every minute".
Is there an equivalent saying in Italian?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

I've read this entire thread. And that is rather far from the most productive thing I've ever done.

Based on that, and your thread title: "Installed the Fuel Shark Device. Would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends.", I gave you one of my opinions.

Your opinion was not based on technical arguments IMO.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Your opinion was not based on technical arguments IMO.

But do I really have to formulate a technical argument? Plenty of folks that both you and I recognize have already done that. And they have all explained why the ‘Fuel Shark’ unfortunately is merely a placebo device (And that’s expressing it very diplomatically…).

 

[Raffy.Roma]

But do I really have to formulate a technical argument?

Yes you have. You cannot base a judgment like the one that you gave using the technical arguments given by other people.

 

[Gerardf]

How you can say this? Did you read my posts? Did you see that I rose the matter of distributed impedances that can change the behaviour of the circuit in real circumstances?

I am sorry, but several people here, with several clearly having a background in electronics, have been trying to explain this to you with correct technical arguments.

Your remark about this circuit to my opinion shows that electronics is not your background, which is fine. It is great we see people with such varied expertise on this forum. I feel you should consider to accept the knowledgeable feedback you got in this thread as such.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Plenty of folks that both you and I recognize have already done that. And they have all explained why the ‘Fuel Shark’ unfortunately is merely a placebo device (And that’s expressing it very diplomatically…).

They gave their technical judgment but I don't agree with them. In particular the circuit representation they gave of the Fuel Shark is too simple and does not represent the distributed impedances that always exist.

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I am sorry, but several people here, with several clearly having a background in electronics, have been trying to explain this to you with correct technical arguments.

Your remark about this circuit to my opinion shows that electronics is not your background, which is fine. It is great we see people with such varied expertise on this forum. I feel you should consider to accept the knowledgeable feedback you got in this thread as such.

I am an electronic engineer. Please read my post #44 of this thread about the matter of the electric representation of a circuit.

 

[Johan]

Installed the Fuel Shark Device. Would like to know the opinion of my TMC fri...

You're an EE? Wow, in what field do you work?

Also, may I ask you a somewhat rhetorical question? If such a simple and cheap electronic device was able to somehow improve the performance of the electrical system and/or the fuel consumption, would such devices not already be built in to every car sold? After all even a cheap car costs 10.000 EUR and to add these components would cost the manufacturer perhaps 0.50 EUR?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

You're an EE? Wow, in what field do you work?

I used to work in the aerospace field but now I have a problem of work. I cannot say anything about it for privacy reasons.

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Also, may I ask you a somewhat rhetorical question? If such a simple and cheap electronic device was able to somehow improve the performance of the electrical system and/or the fuel consumption, would such devices not already be built in to every car sold? After all even a cheap car costs 10.000 EUR and to add these components would cost the manufacturer perhaps 0.50 EUR?

Maybe that you are right. I am only trying to understand the truth about this device. I saw a video on YouTube where a woman claimed that the device is able to save 2 miles per gallon. I only want to understand if this is true or false.

May I do it? I don't think that I deserve to get a bad reputation on TMC only because I am trying to understand the truth about this matter. After all not everybody (like me) can afford a Tesla right now and some fuel saving would be fine.

 

[Yggdrasill]

They gave their technical judgment but I don't agree with them. In particular the circuit representation they gave of the Fuel Shark is too simple and does not represent the distributed impedances that always exist.

Regarding the distributed impedances; they are not part of the design, and will vary between different units from the same production line. Some will have 0.5 milliohm between the capacitor and the plug, others will have 0.3 milliohm. This has to do with how the things are soldered together, some will have a better connection than others. On top of that, the capacitor is 1000 uF +- 20%. Any filter with that much variance isn't designed for any specific purpose. http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/aluminum/e_yxf.pdf

A good filter will have a complex configuration of different components to eliminate variations due to tolerances. This is a cheaper way of doing things than specifying components with absurdly accurate values. There is no evidence of either approach here. There is no complex circuit, and we aren't exactly talking about precision components.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Regarding the distributed impedances; they are not part of the design, and will vary between different units from the same production line. Some will have 0.5 milliohm between the capacitor and the plug, others will have 0.3 milliohm. This has to do with how the things are soldered together, some will have a better connection than others. On top of that, the capacitor is 1000 uF +- 20%. Any filter with that much variance isn't designed for any specific purpose. http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/aluminum/e_yxf.pdf

A good filter will have a complex configuration of different components to eliminate variations due to tolerances. This is a cheaper way of doing things than specifying components with absurdly accurate values. There is no evidence of either approach here. There is no complex circuit, and we aren't exactly talking about precision components.

Don't agree. If you see at the picture of the device in your post #38 you can see that actually there are no wires in the circuit and all the connections are done with metallic parts having their own resistance that is not considered in the electrical circuit that has been given in this thread. So we have already a resistive impedance that should be added to the circuit. But this is only one thing. Then this metallic parts will also have their capacitive and inductive components and so on.......

 

[Johan]

Installed the Fuel Shark Device. Would like to know the opinion of my TMC fri...

I used to work in the aerospace field but now I have a problem of work. I cannot say anything about it for privacy reasons.

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Maybe that you are right. I am only trying to understand the truth about this device. I saw a video on YouTube where a woman claimed that the device is able to save 2 miles per gallon. I only want to understand if this is true or false.

May I do it? I don't think that I deserve to get a bad reputation on TMC only because I am trying to understand the truth about this matter. After all not everybody (like me) can afford a Tesla right now and some fuel saving would be fine.

Did you consider the possibility that the woman in the video was simply lying because she was paid to do so. After all that seems beyond any reasonable doubt to be the most likely explanation. Often the simplest explanation of a phenomenon is the correct one.

Also, you are of course not doing anything wrong and not hurting anyone but from me it's just a friendly suggestion that you should consider that others may not take you seriously in the future, regarding other matters (technical or otherwise), if you continue using more of your time and resources "investigating" this product and posting about it here.

Lastly, I'll do you a favor and not post again in this thread.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Did you consider the possibility that the woman in the video was simply lying because she was paid to do so. After all that seems beyond any reasonable doubt to be the most likely explanation. Often the simplest explanation of a phenomenon is the correct one.

Maybe that you are right or not. As I said I only would like to know the truth about this matter.

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Also, you are of course not doing anything wrong and not hurting anyone but from me it's just a friendly suggestion that you should consider that others may not take you seriously in the future, regarding other matters (technical or otherwise), if you continue using more of your time and resources "investigating" this product and posting about it here.

Lastly, I'll do you a favor and not post again in this thread.

As I said I don't think that I deserve a bad reputation because I am trying to understand the truth about this matter.
Of course you are free to do what you want.

 

[NigelM]

But I would like to know the opinion of my TMC friends also because the Fuel Shark Device is an American device and you know certainly much more than me on this matter.

Raffy, the device has been widely tested and reported on in the U.S. and has never passed a single impartial test. Unfortunately here we really don't have a responsible authority capable of shutting down the company but the widespread debunking of the impossible claims has also now to led to the product being sold for as little as $4 on Amazon. I think these are the reasons you're seeing so much push-back when you asked for comments.

As you have a background in EE and aerospace I thought you might be interested in the view of Prof Shepherd of Caltech:

Professor Joseph Shepherd of Caltech, professor of Aeronautics and Mechanical Engineering, as well as a gearhead. Here's what he told me when I read the description Fuelshark sent me:

"Nonsense. It's total nonsense."

Happily, he elaborated further:​

"If there's noise in the electrical system. car makers have been filtering that out for over 50 years — and, that's been mostly to keep buzzing noises from coming out over the radio. The electrical system makes a modest load on the engine and has very little to do with fuel economy at all. Whatever fractional amount of load it puts on, saying that filtering will get around 10% or more better MPG is absurd."
​

And that's all assuming the Fuelshark does any appreciable filtering at all, which it doesn't. For one thing, Prof. Shepherd said the car's battery does the lion's share of the voltage filtering as it is, and what's more, a capacitor set-up plugged into the 12V outlet like in the Fuelshark wouldn't work that way:

"A capacitor is passive. The cap starts discharged, you turn on engine and the cap gets charged up with 12V and stays charged. It took electrical energy to charge it, and it just sits there at 12v — not going back into the system or anything. You cut the car off and it discharges. That's it."

​

And, keep in mind, it was pretty indulgent of this guy to even go into this in as much detail. To most people familiar with car electrical systems, the idea is simply too ridiculous to even consider. My friend Tom Jennings, who helped me evaluate the Fuelshark in the first article, told me this when I asked him about testing:

"There is nothing to test, even 10,000,00,000 microfarads stuck in a cigarette lighter socket would not have any effect on car operation, so their cap will do nothing. I reiterate, their [Fuelshark] actually *consumes* energy (the LED). It adds literally nothing. There's nothing to test."

You're free to theorize that everyone else might be wrong, and I admire you want to see out a test for yourself, but just having that little blue light reminding you to drive more economically is probably a good thing in any case.

 

[Electroman]

I am going to send one 'ElectroPure Ultra' to Raffy so that he can thoroughly test it out and report the results.

Hopefully someone can reverse it and sequester the green electrons and that will be popular in the red states and coal states like PA and OH.