Well just got capped at 90kw charge rate. Interesting data point, just hit 90k miles in between the most recent supercharging sessions. Last session before 90k miles was 113kw charge rate. CANbus lists DC charge total of 7378kwh, 567 charge cycles total.
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Did you receive a firmware update around the time you crossed 90k miles? Could the reduced charge rate be related to the recent 2019.16.2 update where they modified S & X charging? I know they increased them in 2019.12.x...but hopefully they didn't take them away in 2019.16.x!
I'll have to go back to my notes, but there was a furnace update in there somewhere......
Before buying the car I downloaded a chart from a S85 owner on this forum and used it to estimate real world range based upon speed, temperature and altitude change, and how long supercharge stops might take. The real world range achieved averaged 105% of the estimates, though there were some underestimates due to high winds, erratic speeds etc.
I always monitored charge rate for the first 5-10 minutes after we plugged into a supercharger to see that we were getting a reasonable number, but once we were I didn't pay much attention to the exact taper curve. I did notice that out max rate through 2018 (40,000 miles) was 105kW but that it was only 93kW on 8 charge stops in April. Thus I assumed I was now one of the "throttled" 90 battery owners.
For our final May trip to Mammoth, Death Valley and Las Vegas, I monitored the taper curve and compared it to the on for the 85 which I had downloaded in late 2015.
In May the pattern of charge rate was different than in April. It was about 90kW at 10% and rose gradually to 100kw at 45%, then started to taper. I observed this exact pattern at both Lone Pine May 25 and Beatty May 29. The downloaded curve for the 85 has a faster charge rate of 115kW at low SoC but its taper starts at 20% and its rate is lower than mine from 40-75%
While I recorded rated miles added at all 143 of my supercharge stops, I had recorded time spent supercharging at only 40 of them. Those sessions started at an average of 14% SoC and finished at an average of 74% SoC. The curve differences above/below 40% SoC offset so my actual charge time averaged 98% of expected over those 40 sessions. I never recorded the taper curve when I had the initial rate of 105kW, but the time spent charging vs. expected was 99% at Lone Pine and 91% at Beatty, the charge stops used in the graph above. So at least in my case actual supercharge time seemed minimally affected.
I always monitored charge rate for the first 5-10 minutes after we plugged into a supercharger to see that we were getting a reasonable number, but once we were I didn't pay much attention to the exact taper curve. I did notice that out max rate through 2018 (40,000 miles) was 105kW but that it was only 93kW on 8 charge stops in April. Thus I assumed I was now one of the "throttled" 90 battery owners.
For our final May trip to Mammoth, Death Valley and Las Vegas, I monitored the taper curve and compared it to the on for the 85 which I had downloaded in late 2015.
In May the pattern of charge rate was different than in April. It was about 90kW at 10% and rose gradually to 100kw at 45%, then started to taper. I observed this exact pattern at both Lone Pine May 25 and Beatty May 29. The downloaded curve for the 85 has a faster charge rate of 115kW at low SoC but its taper starts at 20% and its rate is lower than mine from 40-75%
While I recorded rated miles added at all 143 of my supercharge stops, I had recorded time spent supercharging at only 40 of them. Those sessions started at an average of 14% SoC and finished at an average of 74% SoC. The curve differences above/below 40% SoC offset so my actual charge time averaged 98% of expected over those 40 sessions. I never recorded the taper curve when I had the initial rate of 105kW, but the time spent charging vs. expected was 99% at Lone Pine and 91% at Beatty, the charge stops used in the graph above. So at least in my case actual supercharge time seemed minimally affected.
The latest software (2019.20.2.1) seems to have adjusted the charge rate yet again. I didn't record the data through dinner, so I only have 2 data points, since once I was certain charging was going well I didn't need to watch it. I was getting 128kW at 11% and 136kW at 22%. I don't SC often so am not throttled yet. Both of these numbers are higher than my previous recorded peak of 119kW. Anyone with a throttle and this software version who can give us some more numbers?
I'm still capped at 95 kW since a few months in to ownership so basically the last 3 years and 110,000 miles. I did about 10 superchargers this weekend and it is still kept for me but I wasn't expecting the update to unlock any magical range.
Pre-refresh Jan 2016 S90D with v1 battery pack and 137,000 miles
That seems like a pretty great SCing rate...
I have never seen more than 118 kW on my 2015 S 85D. I learned from this forum that if I were to blast AC in summer or heat in winter this rate might go up to 120 kW.. but i have never tried this so i couldn't say.
Which software version are you on? Reports that I have seen suggest that the higher rate for older packs only showed up at the .20 version. Earlier versions made the tail longer, holding higher rates for more time, which is a nice improvement and probably more useful in the real world.
@DarkMatter, I've been on "v20.2.1 5659 e07" for at least 2 weeks now and have supercharged maybe 40 times since then. I doubt there will be any change to somebody with a v1 90 kWh battery so I don't have very much faith that it can be fixed by a software update.
I've also lost 45 miles of range which is just a little over 15% I think so having faster charging with only 250 miles max range is almost pointless when the battery is almost degraded enough that it warrants a replacement and I can get nearly 300 miles again out of a full charge.
There are a good number of places where 200 miles of highway driving is barely possible between destinations so it has really limited some of my adventurous road trips.
What do you mean by "warrants"? (Since the warranty doesn't cover degradation in the S&X at all.)
Semantics, @MP3Mike. It "should be on a recommended replacement list" perhaps? I'm currently in a discussion or more like a argument with Tesla tech support who feel that the battery is "within tolerance" and are unwilling to replace the battery.
The warranty might not cover degradation but I know some at least one friend of mine who had his replaced but don't know the exact reason other than when the vehicle indicated there was 40 miles of range remaining the car shut down and had to be towed to a Service Center.
I've had moments where I'm down to three or four percent of battery range and things are progressing along the estimate on the graph for battery use of a trip but then 5 or 10 miles from the end of the trip it suddenly drops to or 3% range and suddenly gives me 1 or 2 miles of range to go 5 miles and shows that I will get there with -2% remaining.
So I'm not sure if the battery is having some fits when it gets low and range but I would rather not find out when I'm in an area with no cell coverage range and no internet access to the vehicle or in remote places where not many people are driving by every hour.
The car shutting down with 40 miles remaining is a very good indicator of a battery that is about to, our has, failed.
I have seen a couple people report getting a replacement in situations like that. (They also reported "excessive" degradation before that happened.)
I think range prediction issues at the bottom are fairly common.
I have seen a couple people report getting a replacement in situations like that. (They also reported "excessive" degradation before that happened.)
I think range prediction issues at the bottom are fairly common.
Nobody at Tesla is providing a number for range degradation or maximum range allowed or what "excessive degradation" actually means and they just waved their voodoo magic at my request and say it is within tolerance.
Or they suggest not using superchargers as often but it's a little difficult to drive across half the country for a car event and not use superchargers all the way.
I didn't know your software version from your previous post. I saw a change on my unknown version 90 battery, so I asked.
That is because one doesn't exist as the warranty doesn't cover that. (For reference on the Model 3 a battery has to fail or hit 30% degradation to be considered for a warranty claim.)
I was just saying that people reported "excessive" degradation before their battery actually failed. And like with you Tesla didn't care about the degradation, but once the battery actually failed they replaced it. (I think shutting down at 40 miles range remaining is pretty much failed, but Tesla pushed back on one case of that saying that the capacity was just out of calibration. If I recall correctly after going through the calibration process, 100%-10%-100% the person went another month or two before the battery was classified as failed by Tesla and replaced under warranty.)
What is the firmware number? People are saying the new firmware seems to be unlocking the charge rate for some. The question is for those with capped supercharging rate. Redo the test with the newest firmware to verify.
I've supercharged probably 100 times in the past month at everything ranging from starting at 0% to 40% on up to 80%, 90%, and 100%. I have never seen higher than 94 or 95 kW (tracked continuously by Teslafi so it isn't like it will hit 140 kW for a few minutes when I'm away from the car).
When you say, "People are saying the new firmware seems to be unlocking the charge rate" are they for sure on v1 of the 90D pack like I am? If not then it isn't the same scenario.
Here are my latest updates. I just did a 5,100-mile trip in 6 days and had plenty of chances supercharging but never saw increased rates.
Yeah, v1 90kwh packs (or 84kwh packs more like it), aren't getting more than 95kwh charge rates. It just isn't happening. Fun fact, we seem to be down to 76kwh nominal capacity now as well.
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