zoomer0056
Active Member
Sounds like you need to schedule a service visit. Your car neither disengages from over torquing or even recognizes your minor torquing.
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I got a very unfair third strike that I do not understand. Please help.
- Thread starter PhysicsGuy
- Start date
One of the problem I learned early on. It is very easy to accelerate pass 85 mph with a Tesla. Now, I disengage FSD before passing a slow car.
My vehicle doesn't have a cabin camera.
Also, that behavior is pure evil even on vehicles that do. 99% of the time, I engage AP precisely because I need to take my eyes away from the road to deal with something on the touchscreen. That is absolutely the worst possible time for it to be hyper-sensitive to eyes on the road from a user experience perspective, and precisely when beeping at you will cause the biggest possible distraction from driving and the greatest chance of causing a wreck.
zoomer0056
Active Member
From your own experience and reading many posts like this and reading the manual, people are already aware the current system requires hands on and full attention. The manual does not say to turn on then tune out ... its says the opposite. It is not hands free or eyes off the road. People know this yet some still complain when not using the system properly.
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Here is something I reported in another thread. You might get some useful ideas:
For many years I have driven with autopilot and then FSDb using one hand at 5 o’clock or 7 o’clock to provide continuous torque. Never was bothered by nags. Now, as of the holiday update, I get the "Apply slight turning force to steering wheel" nag even though I am already dong so. I have tried increasing the torque when I see the message but that did nothing. However, momentarily reversing the torque dismisses the nag instantly.
The nag appears to happen every 2-3 minutes or so but I haven’t had a chance to do much experimenting. For example, I wonder if there is any difference between providing continuous torque vs none at all.
This is in my 2018 3 and my 1019 X, neither of which have cabin cameras.
2023.44.30.8, FSDb v11.4.9
Nobody said anything about turning it on and then tuning out. I'm talking about turning AP on because you have to do something that takes you away from complete concentration on the road for a few seconds. If Tesla wanted us to keep both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road every second, they should not have installed a touchscreen, because that basic design is fundamentally incompatible with perfect attention to the road or continuously keeping both your hands on the wheel. But they did, and AutoPilot used to do a very good job of making that poor design decision tolerable. In fact, that was arguably the main reason to use AutoPilot in the early days.
With these absolutely fascist instant zero-warning nags for the first half a minute after you engage AutoPilot, I find that AutoPilot is actually making interactions with the touchscreen take considerably longer, resulting in me being way more distracted for a much longer period of time, because of having to deal with AutoPilot's distraction on top of whatever I was trying to do. That provably makes your driving less safe than it otherwise would be if AutoPilot didn't have those ultra-paranoid startup nags, and in fact, provably less safe than it would be to do those actions on a car that doesn't even have AutoPilot-like capabilities at all.
It really is that simple from my perspective. These new changes to AutoPilot make driving less safe. A lot less safe. Distractions are fundamentally bad, and AutoPilot's beeping "You have to do something right now" nags distract people from driving. Every bit of extra effort you have to do above and beyond normal, reasonable driving behavior solely for the purpose of keeping AutoPilot from pitching a hissy fit like a spoiled 8-year-old distracts drivers, contributes to driver fatigue, and makes driving harder rather than easier.
This is not to say that AutoPilot should let you, as you put it, turn it on and tune out. But AP shouldn't be more sensitive when you first turn it on than it is when you have been running AutoPilot for five minutes. That's an absolutely stupid and user-hostile behavior that completely defeats its primary use, which is making Tesla's touchscreen not be the absolute worst user interface design choice in the entire history of automotive engineering.
I don't think there is any thing wrong with requiring full attention when engaging AP. Just do all your screen activities before you engage AP! If you want to do things with the screen, just disengage before you do so.
FWIW, here is an anecdote. I have practically had no issues with satisfying torque the steering wheel nag in two cars, a 3 and Y. My wife drives the same cars, and she has trouble with it. This at least suggests that at least some of the variation is definitely the driver.
The only forced disengagement I've had was early in my Tesla ownership, exceeding 90 mph (back when the max speed was higher) when performing an evasive maneuver. Like an earlier poster, I now flick up on the stalk first if I'm going to a significant override.
I second the recommendation if the torque nag is not going away, reverse the direction of the torque that you are applying. This most likely occurs on very long straights where the car makes no correction. The recent changes has been pretty much a non-event for me.
I sometimes get an initial warning about eyes on the road right when I activate FSD. I'm usually looking at the screen when I do this to confirm the engagement and that the short term planning was good. After that the drives are pretty much as they were.
The only forced disengagement I've had was early in my Tesla ownership, exceeding 90 mph (back when the max speed was higher) when performing an evasive maneuver. Like an earlier poster, I now flick up on the stalk first if I'm going to a significant override.
I second the recommendation if the torque nag is not going away, reverse the direction of the torque that you are applying. This most likely occurs on very long straights where the car makes no correction. The recent changes has been pretty much a non-event for me.
I sometimes get an initial warning about eyes on the road right when I activate FSD. I'm usually looking at the screen when I do this to confirm the engagement and that the short term planning was good. After that the drives are pretty much as they were.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
To be clear given the thread title, this is not a strike (you did not say it was). Just a benign forced disengagement.
Is this sarcasm? Are you suggesting that people turn off the thing that keeps the vehicle on the road when they're not paying attention to their driving?
zoomer0056
Active Member
I dont think KLam was suggesting to turn off and tune out. Just like one should not turn on and tune out.
One has to pay attention all the time.
He was musing at a way to avoid nags. But I believe some rightfully get nags because they don't know how to use the system .... which includes when not to use it. But I really don't know, I don't have EAP or FSDb.
I reacted because, if anything, I'm more inclined to turn on FSD when I'm going to do something like fiddle with controls. I consider that to be far safer, and I only get nags if I ignore the environment for more than about eight seconds. So I just break up my task into short episodes where I'm focused on something inside the car.
This nag stuff is so fascinating to me because I want to know if the problems stem from the car, the driver or some combination of the two. It seems like a great doctoral dissertation topic, but I'm not sure what field. Psychology? Human factors? Industrial design?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I experimented with this today and could not get any warning. Maybe people are being super irresponsible? Can someone capture the message they see?
The only thing I saw was a torque wheel notice several seconds after engaging when I was intentionally looking at my lap for a couple seconds prior to engaging (and of course I was looking at the road and had hands on the wheel when the warning came). I did not experiment with not paying attention, with FSD engaged - that can lead to a pay attention warning quite rapidly. So yeah if you engage it and continue looking down for several more seconds at least, I could see a “pay attention to the road” warning occurring quite quickly. But likely has little to do with what you are doing before engaging (possibly not zero though).
Maybe people are looking at their lap/phone for a minute or two before engaging and that is when they get this warning? Seems hard to believe.
Anyway no idea what this is all about. Never seen such a thing as this:
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I usually don’t see nags on engagements.
For this morning’s drive, I saw a total of four nags, most occurring during a continuous stretch of FSD of 15 minutes or so. I had at least five or six disengagements elsewhere on the drive. Only once was there an associated nag several seconds after engagement and I was deliberately not paying attention (in a reasonably safe situation to experiment) as I engaged.
PianoAl
Active Member
I rarely put two hands on the wheel when using FSD and in fact use "two hands on the wheel" to signal to my brain that I am driving. Since adopting that system, I have not had the scary experience of the car going out of the lane because I thought it was driving.
Look directly at the screen and engage FSD, and you'll get an immediate warning.
If you have trouble torquing the wheel to silence nats, get used to using buttons or the stalk to do it.
I tested this morning. I looked at the bottom of my screen when engaging FSD Beta, and indeed my car gave me "Pay Attention" with an alert tone, and the top of the screen flashed blue for a moment, but immediately stopped as I looked forward. Not a normal behavior as I'm always looking forward when engaging.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’ll have to try again. I tried twice. Looking at my lap. I looked up about one second after engagement.
It’s interesting that people are triggering this warning though! Would not have thought of this use case where you are not paying attention at all when you are driving, then start paying attention when FSD takes over control. I would have expected the opposite.
I never got the warning before until I forced the test. I think you and I use the system differently to some. I agree with you that normal operation of the system would not result in alerts.
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