HPCs at Supercharging sites?

[dpeilow]

Honestly, we've done the 40 kW non-supercharge thing to death.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

simplicity

To me it's a matter of simplicity. The Supercharger checks your car has the hardware and the hardware is enabled and charges your car. The only middleman is the electric company.

To support the Roadster would mean additional hardware at the site for a small number of vehicles that will only get smaller over time. Given the intention of selling at least 8,000 new cars each year the focus is on the future and I think Tesla would show better support for the initial adopters by seeing whether it's possible to upgrade the Roadster charging hardware at the time the battery pack is replaced. For now though I'd have thought Roadster owners would be more concerned about Tesla surviving and prefer that they not spend money on stuff that won't help build and sell new cars.

 

[wycolo]

> a couple of 70a chargers off to the side. [ efxjim]

Gotta keep the riffraff out. Think of the ModelS as your 'touring car' on the electric version of The Lincoln Highway ala 1917. Supercharging stations reserved ONLY for ModelS, vin & 'gps home base' access protected. No other cars get the juice. There is no other way this business model will work. Short, sharp, yes, but ultimately kudos to TM for a brilliant solution.
--

 

[Eberhard]

i am just back for a week long trip over with over 2400km traveled. At my last day, i did 870km. I had to make a detour, because of an overheated PEM which required an inspection to be done. I could have saved hours on my return trip by charging with 3-phase at 32A instead of mono phase. But i managed to use an HPC at 60A (total of 3 HPC on my trip) with helped a lot. SC would be fine and DC charging in general will be more common in the future. I don't see any reason not being done with the roadster, it only needs communication to the BMS via CAN-bus and direct access to the batterie (maybe an extra socket). It really does not matter to charge an 40kWh, 56kWh (Roadster) or 85kWh in 45min to 80% SOC. The stress to the battery is always the same, because the current is adapted to the capacity.

I still don't understand the decision not to support the 40kWh version with the SC. Its only a political decision by Tesla like not supporting the Roadster with 3-phase charging in Europe.

 

[bonnie]

> a couple of 70a chargers off to the side. [ efxjim]

Gotta keep the riffraff out. Think of the ModelS as your 'touring car' on the electric version of The Lincoln Highway ala 1917. Supercharging stations reserved ONLY for ModelS, vin & 'gps home base' access protected. No other cars get the juice. There is no other way this business model will work. Short, sharp, yes, but ultimately kudos to TM for a brilliant solution.
--

Really doesn't make sense. Roadsters are not *riffraff*, but the car that made all this possible. Putting in an HPC allows the sites to work for all Tesla customers. I'm missing why you think that is a bad business decision.

 

[qwk]

I would hope and like you said Strider assume supercharger support will be built into the Model-X. I read that the supercharger was built with the model-S and future Telsa vehicles in mind.

Is it true they're not supporting the 40kWh Model-S? I see Tesla mentions on their website that the supercharging hardware is not available for the 40kWh Model-S. So given that it appears it is true, then why's that? Cost Savings or something else? Will there be a cutoff as well for the Model-X?

Possibly in the future they'll add support to the 40kWh version if the cost of manufacturing the cars drop due to increased demand and reduced supplier costs. I can only speculate it was just a cost reduction decision and that the hardware support would drive the price up 8k or so.

Tesla is doing everything they can to not sell the 40 kwh pack cars. Elon hinted a while ago that the 40 kwh pack would be going away after the first year. I bet they underestimated the cost to produce the car, didn't want to up the price( ie roadster price hike fiasco), and now they are excluding the base pack from supercharging, along with a very pricey maintenance plan. I bet most of the people that were going to get the base car have cancelled or soon will.

 

[vfx]

Can we rename this thread?

"Supercharger sites need HPCs"

All I see is "Did I miss..."

[ TEG edit: I renamed it to something like that. ]

 

[dpeilow]

I bet the 40 kWh pack was necessary to hit a political price point needed for the DoE loan.

But the cost to add a Roadster plug and control hardware to those stations would be tiny by comparison.

 

[wycolo]

> Really doesn't make sense. Roadsters are not *riffraff*, but the car that made all this possible. Putting in an HPC allows the sites to work for all Tesla customers. I'm missing why you think that is a bad business decision. [bonnie1194]

True enough in the short term. Long term however, can you imagine all the whingeing that will fill this forum in future re: non-Teslas cluttering up the Supercharger Stations using the HPC (because they all now have adapters & just love the free KWHs). Requiring TM to install more & more HPCs causing even more clutter. TM will thus become the defacto, rather than the specific, really messing up their business model. TM has always said their network 'is for Model_Ss' so they are being consistent here. Others assumed they meant Roadsters too. As Roadsters dwindle as a proportion of Teslas at large, their exclusion from this equation makes sense. Let Roadster folk continue to use & encourage EVSE progress ex-TMSCs. I'm one myself, but understand the need for TM to be exclusive, to set up gates that only open for Ss. If monoliths like Nissan, Toyota & GM, etc want to get busy with SCs and be generous to all comers, they can. But so far they haven't even talked the talk.
--

 

[bonnie]

There is one rumor of an HPC to J1772 adaptor, but not verified. Would your opinion change if tesla HPCs continued to remain exclusive to Roadsters?

and if I'm wrong and everyone does have adapters now, please point to that info - I'm curious!

 

[vfx]

True enough in the short term. Long term however, can you imagine all the whingeing that will fill this forum in future re: non-Teslas cluttering up the Supercharger Stations using the HPC (because they all now have adapters & just love the free KWHs). Requiring TM to install more & more HPCs causing even more clutter.
--

If Tesla installs a J1772 plug at a Supercharger site (something I heard they are not against nor for) Then it would be to entice low range non Telsa drivers with multiple beautiful long range Teslas pulling in, getting 200 miles and back on the road before they are even half filled.

 

[wycolo]

> There is one rumor of an HPC to J1772 adaptor, but not verified. Would your opinion change if tesla HPCs continued to remain exclusive to Roadsters? And if I'm wrong and everyone does have adapters now, please point to that info - I'm curious! [bonnie1194]

You mean a 'reverse CAN'? No knowledge of such (I own a CAN), but know this (!) the DIY world is onto this like white on rice since the SC announcement hoopla. They take this as a direct tech challenge; the fact that they are cheapsters at heart (I include myself here) just adds to the motivation. In time every EV will join the parade and will have to be accommodated by TM. Back to the GATE concept, Roadsters could readily be ID'd and the gates opened for them, too (hadn't thought of that). HPCs or even just NEMA 14-50s would certainly be useful behind the gates. TM might have a problem with the gate concept, quite understandably.
--

 

[Jaff]

I wouldn't get too excited about any aftermarket solution that would allow a non-TMC user to access a SC...I'm sure TMC has no intention of providing free charges to non-TMC customers...it could potentially cost them too much money and the inconvenience caused by the additional folks wanting to charge would nullify the benefit for TMC customers...there will be a simple software solution to this issue imo...

 

[vfx]

Superchargers and High Power Chargers -HPCs

Only Roadster and 40kWh Model S owners poll respond please:


Should HPC chargers be installed at Supercharger sites? (NOT DC Supercharging just a regular Tesla 70A High Powered Connector)

_____________________________________


I strongly agree. Tesla should support legacy Roadsters. The HPCs there should have Tesla Roadster 1.0 plugs.7


I strongly agree. Tesla should have HPCs there with 2.0 Tesla plugs so 40kWh Model S' can charge too.


I strongly agree. Tesla should offer one of each, both a Tesla 2.0 plug HPC and a Roadster plug HPC.


I strongly agree. Tesla should install one or more HPCs with a Tesla 2.0 plug and offer a 2.0 socket replacement for Roadsters.


Any of these would be nice but not necessary.


I don't care one way or the other I don't plan to use the Supercharger sites anyway.


I don't want any HPCs to be installed at Supercharger sites.


*****************
If you voted for the Roadster socket conversion add a comment if you would pay for it to be done.

 

[ElSupreme]

I don't have a car yet so I didn't vote. And my opinion may change in the future but here it goes.

If I get a 40kWh Model S: "I don't care one way or the other I don't plan to use the Supercharger sites anyway."
While not 100% true this would be by far the most appropriate answer. If I get a 40kWh pack I would not expect to take any real road trips. Having some chargers around would be nice, and I might use them, but I would not expect or plan on taking my 40kWh Tesla on long trips. There is a single location, on a mountain drive, where I would change my mind however, but not in a place where I would expect a supercharger in the next decade.

If I were/become a Roadster owner: "I strongly agree. Tesla should install one or more HPCs with a Tesla 2.0 plug and offer a 2.0 socket replacement for Roadsters." or one of the Tesla plug 1.0 options. I think this answer is the most forward looking of all of them though, and would be my preference.

If I get a 60kWh Model S: I am not supposed to answer but I would prefer the same answer as the roadster or "I strongly agree. Tesla should have HPCs there with 2.0 Tesla plugs so 40kWh Model S' can charge too." as they would be functionally the same to me. I think a supercharge, then clearing out and using an HPC would be a good way to get a range charge while traveling, and not clogging up Supercharger plugs.

 

[donauker]

This: I strongly agree. Tesla should install one or more HPCs with a Tesla 2.0 plug and offer a 2.0 socket replacement for Roadsters.


Would gladly pay for socket replacement or would even consider a "can" type adapter for a reasonable price

Time to leave the obsolete connector behind! Make a replacement available soon.

 

[Jaff]

+ 1 Don...

This: I strongly agree. Tesla should install one or more HPCs with a Tesla 2.0 plug and offer a 2.0 socket replacement for Roadsters.


Would gladly pay for socket replacement or would even consider a "can" type adapter for a reasonable price

Time to leave the obsolete connector behind! Make a replacement available soon.

 

[PRJIM]

The easier solution would be to have two cables on each HPC (1.0 for the Roadster and 2.0 for the Model S). This would make it a lot easier than having to carry multiple adapters or changing out glued on Roadster sockets.

 

[Sparrow]

I certainly believe Tesla should at the very least have adapters for the Roadster so that they can charge from the new HPWCs. It would be even better to convert the Roadsters to the new 2.0 plug so that everything Tesla is compatible. Not sure where that leaves folks that might be interested in converting their Roadster to J1772.

 

[vfx]

... Not sure where that leaves folks that might be interested in converting their Roadster to J1772.

Tesla offers a small adapter for the Model S to plug it into a J1772. A Roaster with a new 2.0 socket in it could carry that and a Tesla's 14-50 and 110V plugs if needed. All are much smaller for the tinyRoadster trunk.