How do we STILL have a huge hole in PA and NY?

[EVSteve]

Blame Simon and JCPenny for wasting all the effort and time spent trying to put a supercharger in at the Lehigh Valley mall. PP&L supposedly provided multiple options after which, due to cost, Tesla walked away. I agree though that alternatives are taking way too long and it seems like Tesla's focus is elsewhere. As always my HPWC is at the disposal of anyone who wishes to use it.

 

[paulkva]

If it helps I live in Rochester and just confirmed my order.

Maybe if enough people around here buy tesla so then we will get more supercharger love. I'm not going to able to drive to Philly or Nyc on business until Binghamton and Scranton come online.

Congrats on the order, and I do think that's at least part of the equation. As the number of Tesla owners in a given area increases, Tesla has added incentive to build superchargers to allow those people to take extended road trips more easily. For me at least, nothing has been more powerful in convincing others that EVs are viable for any distance than telling them I've driven one to Florida and back.

It's also a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem though - if not enough people are buying in a given area, there's less reason to build superchargers, and without superchargers, there's less reason to buy.

 

[purplewalt]

Currently there are still multiple areas in North America that can use additional Supercharger connections and complete various routes.

I guess the first thing is to find a viable Landlord (hopefully adjacent to a major thoroughfare) that has rights to property and is willing to devote part of it for equipment and parking.
Then someone must appear before the local board or council and get their approval.
Someone must do a base plan, and then have both a sealed Civil and MEP set of drawings completed for that site.
Development for each site is a prototype, with its own unique circumstances and criteria, so what might have worked for the last project may have no bearing on the current project.
Issue and have General Contractors submit bids for the project, and have TM Motors award contract(s).
General Contractor performs all work, then have local power company install transformer, meter base and turn on the power.

<<<BTW, the above IS the really simplified and expedited version of developing a Supercharger site.>>>


In today's drive thru world/mentality, we are so used to getting what we want NOW, we seldom think about the process and number of steps it takes to commit to and achieving excellence.

TM has been rolling out Superchargers at about 100 every 90 days since September.
They just hit 400 on March 13, so about middle of June we will probably see NUMBER 500.

Just gotta be patient.
PRAY for patience, and maybe your area will be fortunate enough to see headway for the next Supercharger or Group of Superchargers.

Looking ahead to projected Supercharger Map for end of 2015, there are a lot of new SpC installations that are anticipated to occur.
It really pays to be patient, because the SpC Map for end of 2016 is awesome.

 

[JakeP]

Not at all diminishing what you eloquently state here, but we are talking about sites that were originally on the 2013 map.

 

[Iz]

I-80 and I-81 definitely need done and maybe also the PA Turnpike. Also, need to be able to travel from NYC/Boston via Albany to Toronto/Montreal.

I've been waiting for a Plattsburgh, NY Supercharger to take family to Montreal. Can make it to Albany. No other Superchargers on the I-87 North corridor in the U.S. It is ~ 220 miles from Albany Supercharger to Montreal Supercharger. Not sure my 60S will make it. In July 2013 it squeezed out 227 miles, with 7 remaining. Back then however, it was a only a few months old.

 

[purplewalt]

Not at all diminishing what you eloquently state here, but we are talking about sites that were originally on the 2013 map.

I know and understand.

Some projects get started, and then sometimes they get delayed.
And occasionally some locations get cancelled, so the process has to start all over from scratch, starting with a new Landlord.
But a heck of a lot of Superchargers are NOW completed.

Personalities, politics, group pressure, lawyers -- you name it.
I still believe TM is in the business of building long-term business relationships.

It seems it does not take much to derail or delay some of the SpC projects.

 

[SFOTurtle]

I live 2,500 miles away and will never drive through this area with a MS unless I have a completely unforeseen move, but I agree this is a giant space in a heavily populated area not to have any, let alone, multiple Superchargers. Keep up the pressure by emailing and calling Tesla. I know that worked out here for a couple of places that received Superchargers that were not part of the original plan.

 

[JakeP]

Yes Purplewalt, I totally agree with everything you say, but my point is more that there has been plenty of time for TM to start over from scratch and have easily completed these sites by now...Harrisburg fell though over a year ago now, I talked to the hotel owner last Easter weekend. And I for one have sent in several site recommendations for its replacement. If they can accomplish so much globally with new site acquisition, how do these failed sites never get restarted? Especially when they form major gaps in the network?

 

[James Anders]

This huge gap is one of the things that is prompting me to wait a bit.


Need several along I80, 81, off the PA turnpike. The major PA cities are underserved too.

There should be several in PA around Philly. Trenton and Delaware don't really count.

And there should be a few spaced along the NJ shoreline.

These are all high-population dense areas.

 

[purplewalt]

This huge gap is one of the things that is prompting me to wait a bit.


Need several along I80, 81, off the PA turnpike. The major PA cities are underserved too.

There should be several in PA around Philly. Trenton and Delaware don't really count.

And there should be a few spaced along the NJ shoreline.

These are all high-population dense areas.

Respectfully, the goal in the location of Superchargers is that they would be located along routes for people as they travel, not inside most major cities.
Hamilton Township and Newark are both within 50 miles of Philadelphia.
So in my book, both of those locations DO count for their intended purpose of providing quick and efficient charging service for travelers.
If someone is using a major city as a destination/stopping point, Hotels and other facilities work well for overnight charging.

95% of most people's charging is done at night using their own power source, just like they do with their cell phones.

As difficult and cumbersome as it is to locate and successfully execute a Supercharger station in less populated areas, what sort of effort (and cost) do you think it would incur to locate a Supercharge inside Philadelphia proper? Because when most people travel long distances, they typically drive around urban city centers.


Circling back to the original topic, yes, TM should redouble their efforts to locate a welcoming landlord/business partner that they can collaborate with and install Superchargers.
Looking ahead @ the end of 2015 TM projections on their map, I notice no less than EIGHT new Supercharger locations within the "boundaries" of the "huge hole".
So, in less than 9 months, this "hole" will be filled in with Superchargers.

A Bit of Patience.
Please.

 

[wycolo]

Ok, so Erie, PA won't yield a SpC site due to all the classy action being jammed onto Peach St leaving the other I-90 Erie exits with the the truck stops, office complexes and low-rent sub-structure that don't exactly cry 'Tesla'. So then consider Westfield, NY which is actually better distanced from Macedonia and Cranberry, and nicely spaced to Canada (via the Peace Bridge), Buffalo and Hornell/Corning, NY.

 

[JakeP]

Westfield is nice, but it is past I-86, and would force all travel onto I-90. Erie supports I-79, I-86 and I-90. I bet we will see a Supercharger at the Millcreek Mall, or one of the surrounding retail complexes.

 

[neroden]

This is one of two reasons why I've been telling people in my area (Ithaca) NOT to buy a Tesla.

Tesla really does need to get their act together up here.

The bigger reason is that there's no service center within a reasonable distance. I have the "unlimited ranger service" plan, so I'm set -- but Tesla isn't selling that plan any more. Which means I have to tell people "Don't buy the car, it'll be too much of a pain for you to get it serviced". Tesla needs a service center in Western NY (Syracuse would be ideal for me, but Rochester would be fine too). They've been talking about one for a long time, but it hasn't happened. Hopefully before Model 3 is released. :-(

Even before Tesla discontinued the unlimited ranger service plan, though, there was another problem -- you can't drive west! I can't count the number of people who were interested in the car and then heard that they couldn't go west (without going through Canada) and decided not to get it. It was dozens.

There's barely any charging of any sort between Buffalo and Cleveland. This problem would be solved by a Supercharger in Erie. At the intersection of expressways going south, east, west, and northeast, it's ideally positioned.

Even after that's done, there's still a big gap in Superchargers... but at least there are lower-speed chargers along most of the routes. Scranton really should have a supercharger, though.

If Tesla is really placing Superchargers based on where Teslas have already sold, they're being very foolish. (So I hope they're not doing that.) The Superchargers are needed precisely in the places where Tesla is *not* selling cars, because people are not going to buy the cars when the charging isn't available. Now, maybe Tesla wants to forget about the Alaska market (that would be understandable), but in the lower 48, I don't think it makes sense. There's a similar logic involving the placement of service centers.

 

[RiverBrick]

Tesla needs a service center in Western NY (Syracuse would be ideal for me, but Rochester would be fine too). They've been talking about one for a long time, but it hasn't happened. Hopefully before Model 3 is released. :-(

The friendly dealer's association got them to back down from opening more stores in NYS. Perhaps there's a moratorium on service centers as well.

I agree that the hole needs plugging. Today, both North-South and East-West traffic is funneled through Newark, DE. With only four Gen-I stalls, the site is ill-equipped for peak demand.

 

[yobigd20]

I live in south jersey and need the allentown PA and binghamton NY sites to be completed to cut off like 5 hours of extra driving up through north jersey and albany in order to make it to syracuse. this hole needs to be filled!!!

 

[wycolo]

Westfield is nice, but it is past I-86, and would force all travel onto I-90. Erie supports I-79, I-86 and I-90. I bet we will see a Supercharger at the Millcreek Mall, or one of the surrounding retail complexes.

If Westfield SpC had been opened 12 months ago, as would have been appropriate, we would have embraced it wholeheartedly and most likely come to terms with the extra 10 miles of driving required for Jamestown traffic, the only actual penalty I can see, as Westfield would also be closer to points east than Erie. Westfield as a 'utility' stop is fine since the next stops (Macedonia, Buffalo and Cranberry) are 'mall' stops.
--

 

[CHGolferJim]

Do you guys in NE see any indication Tesla will be spacing SC closer together in your area due to weather effects on range?

 

[iadbound]

At this point, looking at the Supercharger.info site, there are still no permits pulled for any of the PA/Southern Tier superchargers that are shown on the TMC 2015 map. I suspect this means it will be the end of 2015 if not 2016 for these sites given the difficulties Tesla has had getting superchargers built in parts of PA.

 

[James Anders]

Respectfully, the goal in the location of Superchargers is that they would be located along routes for people as they travel, not inside most major cities.
Hamilton Township and Newark are both within 50 miles of Philadelphia.
So in my book, both of those locations DO count for their intended purpose of providing quick and efficient charging service for travelers.
If someone is using a major city as a destination/stopping point, Hotels and other facilities work well for overnight charging.

95% of most people's charging is done at night using their own power source, just like they do with their cell phones.

As difficult and cumbersome as it is to locate and successfully execute a Supercharger station in less populated areas, what sort of effort (and cost) do you think it would incur to locate a Supercharge inside Philadelphia proper? Because when most people travel long distances, they typically drive around urban city centers.


Circling back to the original topic, yes, TM should redouble their efforts to locate a welcoming landlord/business partner that they can collaborate with and install Superchargers.
Looking ahead @ the end of 2015 TM projections on their map, I notice no less than EIGHT new Supercharger locations within the "boundaries" of the "huge hole".
So, in less than 9 months, this "hole" will be filled in with Superchargers.

A Bit of Patience.
Please.

No reason to be patient. There's every reason to scream and yell in order to keep the focus and pressure on. This doesn't mean I don't support the company and efforts to date.

First off, I'm not necessarily arguing for Superchargers in the downtown Philly area. But I do expect to see Superchargers along major thruways that are in the Philadelphia environs (say a 50 mile bubble diameter around the city) - and yes precisely for the reason you mention.

Hamilton and Newark are fine but these are really outliers. I'm looking for coverage on the surrounding Philly and NJ Interstates I80, I81, I78, I295, PA Turnpike (including the NE Extension) and major roads like US 1. And yes, it's fine if the turnpike Superchargers are a off-Pike by a few miles.

If you look at other major metro areas you'll see much better coverage. For example, look at Pittsburgh as an example for what I'm referring to. There are I70 and I76 Interstates in the Pittsburgh area and there are 3 Superchargers nearby that I could argue provide better coverage than the two in the Philly area.

 

[JakeP]

This is one of two reasons why I've been telling people in my area (Ithaca) NOT to buy a Tesla.

As a shareholder in TSLA, as well as a very satisfied owner who still cannot travel north, east or directly south on Superchargers, I would just like to say "thanks" for your discouraging dozens of people from purchasing the world's greatest car, just because they might have to accept a superb Tesla loaner once a year during annual maintenance, or they might have to plan carefully, detour judiciously, or just take an ICE car during the handful of long-distance trips they make each year.

- - - Updated - - -

No reason to be patient. There's every reason to scream and yell in order to keep the focus and pressure on. This doesn't mean I don't support the company and efforts to date.

+1 to this. If the supercharger team can demonstrate this incredible growth worldwide over the past year, then clearly we can vocalize our disappointment in a major gap in the network that was targeted for completion a year ago or more.