How Aggressive Should Tesla Be with Variable Pricing to Manage Supercharger Congestion? (i.e. Should Tesla jack rates at chronically congested SCers?)

[MP3Mike]

I hope this fee would be cancelled if you cannot reach the next Supercharger (especially in winter)
because of having a smaller battery (like SR Model) or an older Model with high degradation battery.

It will be interesting to see how this 80% could apply to Non-Tesla vehicles with an NACS plug
because of the variety of battery size, consumption efficiency, and charging speed limitation?

How about we wait for actual details to be released? But I imagine it will be fairly simple, charge >80% when the station is full, or nearly full, and you pay x% more for the charge.

They can't waive the surcharge if the entered route shows it needs more than 80%, because people would just game it and set a route that required a full charge so they could avoid the surcharge. Just like people bump their desired state of charge to 100% when they are eating and the charging finishes so they can avoid moving their car and the idle charges. (And that probably isn't even possible for most non-Teslas while state of charge is something shared over CCS by all vehicles.)

So, if this surcharge is more than, or about the same as, the idle charges I think it will be a good change overall.

Could this 'congestion fee' then also takes into account the time spent at a Supercharger,
as charging a 130 kWh Cybertruck to 80% could take longer than a 50 kWh Model 3 SR to 100%?

I doubt it. I suspect the point is to limit the amount of time a stall is delivering less than say 50kW. (Which would be all the time a Bolt EV is charging.)

 

[Wattsisname]

Absolutely it should. That's why I turned off the "Beta Trip Planner" in my car's navigation settings. I look at where the Superchargers are on the map and pick my own.

If introduced, this surcharging will affect our modus operandi:
My first destination on a longish trip is usually a Supercharger the choice of which was part of my pre- trip planning. If making only one charging stop (achieved by leaving home with say 95% and supercharging back to 95%) I set the final destination before leaving the SC.
If using ABRP for a longer road trip, I make sure we arrive at final destination with enough charge to get to a conveniently located SC when we leave.
To what extent, I wonder, will the anticipated congestion be exacerbated by non Tesla vehicles charging. To date, touch wood and everything crossed, we have only had to wait once; that was at Guildford where, but for one Tesla, the charging spaces were occupied by parked up ICE cars.

 

[zoomer0056]

I was on a trip several years ago, and it told me to charge up to 100%

Things have changed a lot in several (more than two years) years. There are a lot more charging options out there.

 

[brkaus]

I would just like to see queue management. Charging locations aren't designed for lines at all. The rest would likely solve itself..

 

[Rocky_H]

Things have changed a lot in several (more than two years) years. There are a lot more charging options out there.

I think you misread or missed the point. There already was another Supercharger right there halfway through the route I described, so it wasn't lack of options. Because the navigation had decided I should skip it, it hid all of the others off the map, so it appeared there weren't any when I looked.

 

[fhteagle]

I think congestion charges are a bad idea for a ton of reasons, including, but not limited to:

- Gives the wrong incentive to Tesla and other CPOs to let the scarcity situation continue (e.g. they make more money from less hardware installations using a congestion charge vs more money with more hardware without a congestion charge)
- The user doesn't have control over how many other people are going to show up at any given time
- Special events.......
- Complicates pricing, more chance for billing errors and increased needs for CSR staff to fix problems

Situations when the congestion charge absolutely must not be applicable, if Tesla is dumb enough to try to add that:

- Next Supercharger on your route is over X miles away, and X needs to be a fairly low number like 100
- Closest other supercharger site is more than Y miles away, like maybe 10 (too much of a detour, creating more energy use)
- Weather emergencies and evacuations
- Charging station is located at a place like a sporting event arena, concert hall, movie theater, etc, where going out to move your car off the charger at a precise moment in time just isn't practical. Hotels probably should go on this list as well, it's just not reasonable to ask people to get up at 2am to move their car off the charger. The solution is more lower power dispensers in these cases, not fewer higher power ones.

A digital queue system is a better solution I think. As soon as people see there's more than Z minutes wait, they will naturally defer unnecessary charging or reroute to another reasonable detour location.

 

[MP3Mike]

- Complicates pricing, more chance for billing errors and increased needs for CSR staff to fix problems

From all the exclusions you want, you are complicating the pricing way more...

- Next Supercharger on your route is over X miles away, and X needs to be a fairly low number like 100

That is never workable, as people would game the system, and set their route to somewhere off-grid to avoid the charges.

- Closest other supercharger site is more than Y miles away, like maybe 10 (too much of a detour, creating more energy use)

I don't agree. Especially if the next Supercharger is 11 miles away and directly on your route. You are essentially saying that Tesla needs to install a Supercharger every 10 miles on routes that experience heavy utilization... I guess they could do that by building a lot of 4 stall sites instead of larger sites further apart.. But it really isn't practical.

- Weather emergencies and evacuations

Tesla has a history of making Supercharging free for those types of events, but I don't think you can expect them to monitor and make changes for every "weather emergency", just like they don't put the Powerwalls into "weather event" mode for everything that people think it should be.

- Charging station is located at a place like a sporting event arena, concert hall, movie theater, etc, where going out to move your car off the charger at a precise moment in time just isn't practical. Hotels probably should go on this list as well, it's just not reasonable to ask people to get up at 2am to move their car off the charger. The solution is more lower power dispensers in these cases, not fewer higher power ones.

You should never be using a Supercharger in those cases; Supercharging is for quick charging and moving on. Surcharge and idle fees should absolutely apply in those cases when the site is full, or nearly full.


I think Tesla should apply the KISS principal here, maybe something like: charge past 80% when the site is more than 75% full and you pay x% more for the charging past 80% SoC. Everytime you add exclusions you make it more complicated, and people wouldn't be able to determine if the surcharge would apply or not. Causing the need for more CSR time which you said you were trying to avoid.

A digital queue system is a better solution I think. As soon as people see there's more than Z minutes wait, they will naturally defer unnecessary charging or reroute to another reasonable detour location.

Face it, people tend to be bad at this stuff, and they need "a stick" to help encourage them to do the right thing. Carrots won't work.

 

[jya*]

The exclusion I would make is for any locked 60D battery cars, since their capacity and charging curve to 100% is like the same curve to 80% on an unlocked car.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

Tesla launches Supercharger congestion fee at $1 per min at 90% charge

Tesla has launched its new Supercharger congestion fee at select stations in an attempt to shorten charging session times. Back...

electrek.co

 

[MP3Mike]

Information from the Tesla site:

Supercharger Congestion Fee

At certain Supercharging locations, congestion fees will replace idle fees. A congestion fee is a fee you pay when a Supercharger is busy, and your vehicle’s battery is above a certain level. You can see the battery charge level where congestion fees apply on your vehicle’s touchscreen.
Congestion fees only apply when:

• The Supercharger is busy
• Your vehicle’s battery is already at or above the congestion fee level

If you meet all the above criteria during your Supercharging session, you will receive an alert in the Tesla app. You will have a five-minute grace period to disconnect your vehicle and leave before congestion fees apply. After the grace period, you will be charged a fee for each minute you remain connected to the Supercharger.
This fee encourages drivers to charge only as much as is needed for their trip, rather than all the way to 100%. This increases the availability of Superchargers so that everyone has access when they need it.

https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharger/fees

https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharger#fees

In all of the FAQs they don't define "The Supercharger is busy", but they do say it can apply even if there are available stalls, so we know that the criteria isn't "full."

But this is a very important detail for everyone to understand: Like idle charges, the congestion fee applies even if you are using free Supercharging.

• My vehicle benefits from free Supercharging. Can I be charged congestion fees?
  Yes. Congestion fees apply to vehicles with free supercharging once charging is complete. Congestion fees won’t apply while charging.
• My vehicle has Supercharging credits. Can I be charged congestion fees?
  Yes. Congestion fees apply to vehicles that have referral miles for Supercharging.

For FUSC vehicles the fee doesn't start until charging completes... (So it is more of an idle fee for them.)

 

[3sr+buyer]

What state of charge would trigger congestion fees?

 

[Rocky_H]

I guess that addresses my main objection I was going to have with this. On the old 60's and 70's there are Supercharger gaps in the West that need charging over 90% just to make it (or to be able to use heat and make it). But those old shorter range cars that are degraded in range some do at least have FUSC, so that would cover them that it would just be an idle fee, which is appropriate. But to use the car as intended to be able to travel but still get charged congestion fees would be wrong and insulting.

 

[MP3Mike]

What state of charge would trigger congestion fees?

It is listed as 90%: https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharger/fees

But it can supposedly be different for each site.

 

[dbldwn02]

For FUSC vehicles the fee doesn't start until charging completes... (So it is more of an idle fee for them.)

That's confusing...It specifically says FUSC will be charged congestions fees and then it says, no only when you're idle. Do they even proof read their FAQs or did they fire that department too?

 

[MP3Mike]

That's confusing...It specifically says FUSC will be charged congestions fees and then it says, no only when you're idle. Do they even proof read their FAQs or did they fire that department too?

I'm sure it was the lawyers. FUSC owners will be charged congestion fees, just not while actively charging. (Charging the congestion fees while charging could probably be seen as violating the FUSC offer.)

 

[dbldwn02]

I'm sure it was the lawyers. FUSC owners will be charged congestion fees, just not while actively charging. (Charging the congestion fees while charging could probably be seen as violating the FUSC offer.)

It definitely would be in violation. I just don't understand why it says "Yes" and then it says "No...as long as you're charging you won't be charged congestion fees"

Maybe because congestion fees are $1/min and idle fees are $0.50/min. That way they can charge the owner more once they hit 100?

 

[MP3Mike]

Maybe because congestion fees are $1/min and idle fees are $0.50/min. That way they can charge the owner more once they hit 100?

I think that is exactly it. Only it isn't when they hit 100%, it is when they stop charging. It could be at 50%, if that is what they have their limit set to.

 

[3sr+buyer]

Regarding the charging behavior that the congestion fee penalizes... under what circumstances would one Supercharge to 100% (or even past 70-80%)? The only one I can think of is road trips where the gap between Superchargers is large enough to require that much charge to get to the next one. But are Superchargers which are spaced far apart (so that drivers need to charge their cars to high states of charge to get to the next one) and prone to being filled up that common?

 

[Earl]

Regarding the charging behavior that the congestion fee penalizes... under what circumstances would one Supercharge to 100% (or even past 70-80%)? The only one I can think of is road trips where the gap between Superchargers is large enough to require that much charge to get to the next one. But are Superchargers which are spaced far apart (so that drivers need to charge their cars to high states of charge to get to the next one) and prone to being filled up that common?

Good point. This is generally not a problem and, even if it was, those few who actually are venturing so far off the beaten path won't worry about spending a few extra $ for a bit more charge. The congestion problem, in my experience, is in urban areas where there are a lot of folks who rely on Superchargers for all of their charging.

 

[brkaus]

The primary reason, according to my cynical side, is to have more time for dinner or shopping.

But other reasons would be out and back trips where you stray from supercharging. Need enough to get somewhere, stay a while, and then get back to a charger.