Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

[IanFromHKG]

I have read the whole of this thread (which took a while!). New Tesla owner, and fortunate enough to have been able to instal my ow tesla wall charger at home. When the installation was finished (I had it done by my handyman, and it is connected directly to my main junction box with three-phase supply) I asked a neighbour, who had a Model S, to test it - and was delighted to see it registering the full 32A. Then, a few weeks later, I received my car - and could only get 16A. Called Tesla who told me I had ordered the single-charger version - although neither I nor my wife remember being offered the option. Not, ultimately, a big deal since we have the option to charge overnight, but annoying that we weren't asked. More annoying to me, however, is this question...

WHY THE HELL HAVE THEY GIVEN ME A CABLE I CAN'T USE??

I live on HK Island. I have yet to find, anywhere, a public charging socket that takes a Type 2 cable. I have looked at various sites, examined every public car park I have visited, and all I see are:
1) Tesla superchargers, always occupied
2) ChaDeMo - don't have the adapter yet but these are so few and far between I am unsure as yet about buying the $4,000 adapter
3) BS1363 sockets (for which I have just ordered a cable from the UK at a cost of about $3,000)

Is there anywhere where I can use the cable Tesla provided? Why don't they give us the UMC adapter which we could actually use in Hong Kong in the majority of car parks where EV charging is provided?

Sorry to sound to angry but this is really irritating. I would happily trade in my useless cable for something I could actually use....

 

[Sonic]

All the places shown on the "E-charge" app work. IFC has 4 sockets and Pacific place have 2, etc.

With a small adjustment to your routines it is a piece of cake.

Enjoy!

 

[IanFromHKG]

Incidentally, I might add, despite being capped out at 60A I was registering 50+km/h charging at home last night (admittedly from nearly empty) so it seems, from what I read on here, that I was getting 16Ax3 - which means I can easily charge from empty to full overnight. Last night, with les than 60 km range indicated, charging time was only 5¼ hours. I have a 70D.

 

[IanFromHKG]

Aaarrgghh!! I wish I could edit posts. Not capped at 60A, capped at 16A

 

[IanFromHKG]

Just thought I would let you all know that I took delivery of a BS1363-to-Tesla cable yesterday, and tested it out at The Galleria on The Peak - worked perfectly, with a steady 10A current. Bought it from the UK for GBP279 including courier charges. I tried to attach a couple of photos but the site won't let me - know sure why. However, while it is not as slick-looking as the Tesla cable, it is a lot cheaper and also, I think, better-looking than some of the blue Mennekes units I have seen.

 

[ediot]

do you have a charger at home? a 10A charge rate feels more like a topping up than efficient charging, since a (for example) lunch stay of say 2 1/2 hours would give... under 30km of range. it's better than 0km of range of course, but i haven't found it worthy of getting an extra cable/ the effort to plug in.

then again i'm quite lazy in certain aspects.

 

[msftdbz]

Just thought I would let you all know that I took delivery of a BS1363-to-Tesla cable yesterday, and tested it out at The Galleria on The Peak - worked perfectly, with a steady 10A current. Bought it from the UK for GBP279 including courier charges. I tried to attach a couple of photos but the site won't let me - know sure why. However, while it is not as slick-looking as the Tesla cable, it is a lot cheaper and also, I think, better-looking than some of the blue Mennekes units I have seen.

What are the options now for free cables that come with the car now ?

 

[miimura]

I live on HK Island. I have yet to find, anywhere, a public charging socket that takes a Type 2 cable. I have looked at various sites, examined every public car park I have visited, and all I see are:
1) Tesla superchargers, always occupied
2) ChaDeMo - don't have the adapter yet but these are so few and far between I am unsure as yet about buying the $4,000 adapter
3) BS1363 sockets (for which I have just ordered a cable from the UK at a cost of about $3,000)

Is there anywhere where I can use the cable Tesla provided? Why don't they give us the UMC adapter which we could actually use in Hong Kong in the majority of car parks where EV charging is provided?

Sorry to sound to angry but this is really irritating. I would happily trade in my useless cable for something I could actually use....

Here are the PlugShare maps for Hong Kong with CHAdeMO (Orange Markers) and Mennekes Type-2 (Green Markers) that you can use with the Tesla provided Type-2 cable.

I was in HK last week and had no idea there were so many CHAdeMO chargers installed. They look pretty intentionally spread around too. Of course, if you don't routinely park in any of the places where they're located, it's still not very convenient.

 

[markwj]

Is there anywhere where I can use the cable Tesla provided? Why don't they give us the UMC adapter which we could actually use in Hong Kong in the majority of car parks where EV charging is provided?

Their thinking is that the BS1363 10A charging standard is pretty useless. Sure, there are plenty of sockets, but the charging rate is so slow that it is of little use unless you can park there for the whole day/night.

By comparison, the medium chargers (for which you use the type II cable provided) are pretty quick and can add a very usable charge in just a few hours.

Our government's announced policy is to migrate the BS1363 sockets to type II medium chargers. Providing the type II cable makes more sense in the medium to long term.

 

[jsiu]

do you have a charger at home? a 10A charge rate feels more like a topping up than efficient charging, since a (for example) lunch stay of say 2 1/2 hours would give... under 30km of range. it's better than 0km of range of course, but i haven't found it worthy of getting an extra cable/ the effort to plug in.

then again i'm quite lazy in certain aspects.

The BS1363 cable is now available at Tesla HK at about HK$1,700, not expensive. I simply keep all the charging options opened to myself and plug-in whenever possible, no matter how fast or slow charge. Plug-in whenever possible becomes my habit now.

 

[markwj]

There was a discussion recently on facebook regarding those 16A taobao mobile EVSE. The poster said:

My 13A taobao uk plug charger, the fuse has burn out and melted some of the plastic. Do you guys know where can I fix it and replace a more reliable uk plug?

Given that Tesla sells the Mennekes mobile EVSE for just HK$1,700, it is certified and safe to use in Hong Kong, has a temperature sensor in the plug for further protection, and is solidly built, I really can't understand why people are using these taobao mobile EVSE. They are not legal to sell in Hong Kong. They risk damage not just to the plugs/sockets, but also to the reputation and confidence in EVs in Hong Kong.

Then, the suggestion came that since the plug gets hot when these are used, the 13A fuse in the plug should be removed to solve the overheating problem!

I've gotta say that I do not recommend removing the fuse. I don't think you'll find a single licensed electrician in Hong Kong that would recommend such a thing. The fuse is there for a reason (over current protection) as drawing too much current could start a fire. In normal operation, not having a fuse is not an issue. The fuse is there to protect in the case of abnormal events.

I'm not a licensed electrician, but I have spent the past 40+ years periodically electrocuting myself. I am painfully aware of what 220V feels like. There seems to be some confusion at to why the fuse is there in the first place as 'the breaker fuse at the MCB will protect you anyway'. That would mean that we don't need fuses in any 13A BS1363 plugs in Hong Kong? That is like saying there is a fuse at the building connection to power grid, so we shouldn't need MCB breakers at all. Clearly ridiculous. The simple fact is that Hong Kong uses the same ring main system as UK, and that is the reason why fuses are required in our plugs.

Anyway, I tried to come up with a plain non-technical explanation for why removing the fuse is a very bad idea, and here it is:

I think perhaps I'm not explaining the fuse requirement sufficiently, but it is important that we all understand the consequences of this.

Imagine your power source (the grid) on the left, and your power consumer (a kettle) on the right.

The fuse at your MCB is there to protect the cabling to its right. The fuse is sized to match the cable size. So if too much current is drawn, the fuse blows (not the cable). In a similar way, the fuse in your BS1363 UK style plug is designed to protect the cabling to its right (the cable from the plug to kettle). Again, the fuse is sized to match the cable (for example look at a lamp cable - very thin and protected by perhaps just a 5A fuse in that '13A' plug).

So, what happens if you remove the 13A fuse from your EVSE plug? The answer is that you remove the protection for that cable from the plug to the EVSE.

That is barely acceptable if the MCB has 16A protection, and just one socket on it. It is very dangerous if the MCB has 30A protection using a ring main approach and multiple sockets.

If something goes wrong, you could end up pulling 30A through that cable sized for 16A.

What happens if you pull more current through a cable than it is able to handle? The answer is it starts to behave like a fuse. It heats up, burns, then blows. Possibly causing a fire in the process.

Bottom line: the fuse is there for a purpose and required in Hong Kong wiring schemes. If your plug / socket it getting hot while you are using it, that means you are pulling too much current through it. That is the reason why the Tesla and Mennekes EVSE plugs have temperature sensors in them and reduce the current draw if they detect overheating. Please don't remove the fuse, don't use crappy taobao uncertified chargers, and limit BS1363 charging to 10A to avoid problems.

 

[jsiu]

The use of Taobao cable (but not restricting the charging current to 10A) could be the cause of so many burnt 13A sockets in the public carparks. The taobao cable EVSE is designed for 16A. It can only be used with 13A sockets when the charging current is dialed down to 10A.

I repeatedly said in Facebook and here that ordinary domestic 13A socket is not designed for 24/7 full duty cycle i.e. 13A continuously for hours

 

[garethmchau]

WHY THE HELL HAVE THEY GIVEN ME A CABLE I CAN'T USE??

I live on HK Island. I have yet to find, anywhere, a public charging socket that takes a Type 2 cable.

There are around 6 spaces with Type 2 cable in each of the Star Ferry, City Hall car parks which I use when I'm at work. Lee Gardens has a couple too. Around 32km/h charge so its quite fast. I don't bother with the BS1363 (which I got for hkd1700) which is dog slow at 10km/h which means I might as well not plug in when at work or having a meal.

 

[jsiu]

[QUOTE="IanFromHKG, post:
WHY THE HELL HAVE THEY GIVEN ME A CABLE I CAN'T USE??

I live on HK Island. I have yet to find, anywhere, a public charging socket that takes a Type 2 cable. I....[/QUOTE]

1 King's Road, Tin Hau Government public car park, there are 6 x type 2 32A medium chargers. The philosophy of charging EV in Hong Kong : whenever chargers are available, plug-in and charge (no matter what kind of chargers, as long as you have the right cables).

 

[FishHead]

My MS 75 was delivered in end sept. However, I have tried 2 different 32A medium chargers at 2 different locations. While the charging box says charging, my charge port lights up for 3 seconds and goes off. The car would not charge with 32A chargers but works well with 13A, Tesla's wall connectors and Tesla's own Superchargers. I called up Tesla's hotline and was told that they are aware of this incompatibility of the new MS and 32A chargers. They said they are working on the solution and will update the software once they iron out the problem. It's been 2 weeks since I report this problem and have not heard from Tesla since. So currently, I can only rely on 13As and SCs. Are there other owners facing the same problem? Does anyone know if this is a problem that can be solved or does it mean I have to rely on slow charging and SC for as long as I own the car?

I forward this quote from another chat. Is this a real problem with the FL Model S or is it just a problem with some chargers as other posters have said?

 

[Troy]

Hi, everybody. I wonder what people here think about paid city superchargers. Would you use them? Is there a demand for them? Has anybody here contacted Tesla to ask for paid city superchargers?

My theory is, superchargers will be divided into two categories: long distance superchargers and city superchargers. All current superchargers in cities will be classified as city superchargers and they won't be free to use. Teslas that have free supercharging will continue using long distance superchargers for free but to use city superchargers, you will need to buy credits. What would you think if Tesla made these changes? Would you use paid city superchargers if Tesla was selling the electricity at cost price? Should Tesla build lots of those everywhere in cities?

 

[markwj]

Hi, everybody. I wonder what people here think about paid city superchargers. Would you use them? Is there a demand for them? Has anybody here contacted Tesla to ask for paid city superchargers?

My theory is, superchargers will be divided into two categories: long distance superchargers and city superchargers. All current superchargers in cities will be classified as city superchargers and they won't be free to use. Teslas that have free supercharging will continue using long distance superchargers for free but to use city superchargers, you will need to buy credits. What would you think if Tesla made these changes? Would you use paid city superchargers if Tesla was selling the electricity at cost price? Should Tesla build lots of those everywhere in cities?

Have a look at the blog post that spells this out: An Update to Our Supercharging Program

Tesla said 'free for life' and so far is sticking to that. Existing owners who got the free-for-life package will continue to get supercharging free for the life of the car. All new owners after 1st Jan 2017 will pay for supercharging. I don't think Tesla will differentiate between city / long distance, other than the free 400kWh supercharging credits. Certainly in Hong Kong there is only city supercharging.

Tesla have said that supercharging will 'cost less than the price of filling up a comparable gas car'. So, I think more than the cost of electricity, less than the cost of equivalent gas/petrol.

The queues for supercharging in Hong Kong are currently so long, and it is such a hassle, that I think it will become the last resort option for those who can't charge elsewhere.I wouldn't pay for it, because I can charge at home, but the majority of owners in Hong Kong do not have that option.

 

[Troy]

Hi @markwj. Thanks for your response.

Imagine 100 people in Hong-Kong buying a new Tesla in 2017 under the supercharger credits system. If you had to guess, how many of these 100 do you think would charge at home or work and how many would charge at superchargers if Tesla opened many city superchargers there? Do you think there are people in Hong-Kong who currently would not consider buying a Tesla but might consider one in 2017 or later if Tesla builds lots of city superchargers, even though these new buyers would have to pay for supercharging?

When I wrote about city superchargers in other forum threads, some people suggested that superchargers are not needed in cities because they are only for long distance travel. Yes so far superchargers were designed for long distance travel but under the credits system, there is no downside to opening them in cities as well. In fact, I believe one of the main reasons Tesla switched to the credits system is because they want to open lots of city superchargers in China, Hong-Kong, London and anywhere else where people need them. Obviously, they couldn't do that when supercharging was free because Tesla would have to pay for people's daily commute.

 

[markwj]

The last Charged.HK survey on this issue showed that about 60% of EV owners here rely on public charging. They have no access to home/workplace charging. That was a year ago, but I don't think much has changed since. The challenges of installing home/workplace charging facilities in a vertical city like Hong Kong are non trivial.

All superchargers in Hong Kong are city chargers. There is no long distance travel here.

Free-for-life city supercharging is unsustainable. The move to pay-per-use is welcome (by me, at least) but will take quite some time to come into effect. There have been more than 6,000 EVs put on the roads here in the past three years, the vast majority of which are Tesla Model S with free supercharging for life. The supercharger network here is also quite established.

 

[Troy]

Thanks. That's very useful. One last question: What percentage of gas car owners in Hong-Kong do you think wouldn't be able to charge at home or work if they had bought an electric car? Is that more than 60%? What is your best guess?