Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

[WoodyOHill]

Thank you Mark.
I do not have the Dual Chargers. I was referring to the 40A Single Phase Charger that comes with the MS.
This is tricky. So my car is supposed to come in Oct. The 3 Phase Charger won't be ready until later.
So for now, I have to get the Single Phase 40A/32A ready for the included Wallbox.
Then when the 3 Phase Wallbox is ready, I have to redo the electricity?!
That's insane.
My electrician told me I can do either Single Phase or 3 Phase. I think I have 150A 3 Phase at my home.

 

[markwj]

Thank you Mark.
I do not have the Dual Chargers. I was referring to the 40A Single Phase Charger that comes with the MS.
This is tricky. So my car is supposed to come in Oct. The 3 Phase Charger won't be ready until later.
So for now, I have to get the Single Phase 40A/32A ready for the included Wallbox.
Then when the 3 Phase Wallbox is ready, I have to redo the electricity?!
That's insane.
My electrician told me I can do either Single Phase or 3 Phase. I think I have 150A 3 Phase at my home.

At launch (October delivery), Tesla will only have a 40A single phase wall connector that they will provide to you free of charge. If you only have a single charger in the car, quite frankly I would wire 40A single phase on a 50A breaker. That will cost you the least, max out the car's on-board charger, and easily recharge your car empty-to-full overnight.

An alternative is to install the EV Power 3 phase wall connector - but you are going to have to pay for that, and rely on EV power to confirm that it will work with the Model S single charger arrangement. From my understanding, that is available today.

But, given it is May/June now, you have plenty of time. Perhaps best to just wait and see. Let others 'suffer' to see what works.

 

[LuckyLuke]

But I just saw Waidy's post about 3-phase. She said should be 230x32x1.732 . 1.732 is square root of 3. Really not sure about 3-phase...

Sqrt is only for calculations where you take the voltage phase-phase , not when you take phase-neutral voltage.

 

[Lerxt]

With a single charger, what should the difference be between single phase 40a and three phase 32a charge rates? What about if one had dual chargers?

 

[LuckyLuke]

On single charger the max on three phase is 230V x 16A x 3 = 11kW (~55km/hour typical range).
On dual chargers the max on three phase is 230V x 32A x 3 = 22kW (~110km/hour typical charge).
Assuming they will use the same internal charger(s) as in a EU cars (for now it seems this is the case).

 

[CCT]

Isn't the most a Single Charger can handle is 11 kW? Sure, if you want to maximise I guess you can dial the amperage down with three phase and achieve ~50km/h instead of ~35km/h. But as Mark says, if you'll be charging your car overnight, it won't change the fact that you'll have a fully charged car in the morning. Unless of course, you drive hundreds of kilometres a day.

 

[miimura]

On single charger the max on three phase is 230V x 16A x 3 = 11kW (~55km/hour typical range).
On dual chargers the max on three phase is 230V x 32A x 3 = 22kW (~110km/hour typical charge).
Assuming they will use the same internal charger(s) as in a EU cars (for now it seems this is the case).

Hong Kong is 220V/380V not 230V/400V like EU, so the actual number is more like 10.5kW and 21kW, but obviously the difference is not that significant.

- - - Updated - - -

With a single charger, what should the difference be between single phase 40a and three phase 32a charge rates? What about if one had dual chargers?

Single charger can only take 40-48A single phase or 16A three phase. You need Dual Chargers in order for the car to actually draw 32A three phase. A car with Single Charger will simply draw 16A from a 32A three phase station.

40A single phase is 220V * 40A = 8.8kW * 4km/kWh = 35.2km/hr
16A three phase is 220V * 16A * 3 = 10.56kW * 4km/kWh = 42.2km/hr (single charger max)
32A three phase is 220V * 32A * 3 = 21.12kW * 4km/kWh = 84.5km/hr (dual charger max)

LuckyLuke is using 5km/kWh above, which I think is a little optimistic, but he drives a Model S in km, so he would probably know better than me. My figure definitely includes charger efficiency though.

 

[waidy]

An alternative is to install the EV Power 3 phase wall connector - but you are going to have to pay for that, and rely on EV power to confirm that it will work with the Model S single charger arrangement. From my understanding, that is available today.

According to Tesla, 3-phase charger hardware is in HK MS. However, it requires SW to turn it on and HK MS will be shipped with 3-phase turn-off. As far as I know, it will not be turn-on until regulatory approval and/or there is a market for it.

 

[sonywong]

Hong Kong is 220V/380V not 230V/400V like EU, so the actual number is more like 10.5kW and 21kW, but obviously the difference is not that significant.

- - - Updated - - -

Single charger can only take 40-48A single phase or 16A three phase. You need Dual Chargers in order for the car to actually draw 32A three phase. A car with Single Charger will simply draw 16A from a 32A three phase station.

40A single phase is 220V * 40A = 8.8kW * 4km/kWh = 35.2km/hr
16A three phase is 220V * 16A * 3 = 10.56kW * 4km/kWh = 42.2km/hr (single charger max)
32A three phase is 220V * 32A * 3 = 21.12kW * 4km/kWh = 84.5km/hr (dual charger max)

LuckyLuke is using 5km/kWh above, which I think is a little optimistic, but he drives a Model S in km, so he would probably know better than me. My figure definitely includes charger efficiency though.

So if I use dual chargers at 80A single phase, I will get 17.6kw and 70.4km/hr? Seems three phase is better (21.12kw & 84.5km/hr). So Tesla's 100km/hr figure is just a theoretical speed (maybe can achieve with 380v 3-phase?)

 

[miimura]

So if I use dual chargers at 80A single phase, I will get 17.6kw and 70.4km/hr? Seems three phase is better (21.12kw & 84.5km/hr). So Tesla's 100km/hr figure is just a theoretical speed (maybe can achieve with 380v 3-phase?)

kW is a known unit with a fixed meaning. km/hr must assume a certain driving efficiency, so it is just a number that is trying to be easier to relate to. 100km/hr at 22kW is about 4.5km/kWh, which is possible. I was being pessimistic on the efficiency.

Dual Chargers drawing 80A on a single phase supply is obviously putting energy in the battery twice as fast as 40A. 380V 3-phase is the same thing we're talking about by multiplying 220V * 3. The 3 phase power is 220V phase to neutral and 380V phase to phase. The calculation with 380V would be 380V * sqrt(3) * 32A = 21kW. Six of one, half-dozen of another.

The other thing to remember is that the power and currents we're talking about here are what is coming from the electric grid. Only about 85% percent of that will actually be stored in the battery. The rest will be lost to charger efficiency which will be taken away as waste heat, will heat up the battery, will be used running coolant pumps or fans, or heat up other wiring along the way. So, if you really need to add 40kWh to your battery and you are using the Tesla Wall Connector at 32A single phase, it will take approximately:

40,000Wh / (220V * 32A * 85%) = 6.68 hours.

...assuming there is no charge tapering as the battery gets very full.

 

[markwj]

According to Tesla, 3-phase charger hardware is in HK MS. However, it requires SW to turn it on and HK MS will be shipped with 3-phase turn-off. As far as I know, it will not be turn-on until regulatory approval and/or there is a market for it.

I think that changed with recent website updates:

View attachment 50446

They are saying that they will release a three phase charger early next year. To me, that means that the cars will support three phase.

For early deliveries, there are no Tesla 3 phase wall connectors, and we need to wait to see what the cars can actually support. If getting the EVpower three phase connector, I suggest that people get EVpower to confirm it will work with the Model S. I know EVpower are working closely with Tesla HK on this.

 

[LuckyLuke]

LuckyLuke is using 5km/kWh above, which I think is a little optimistic, but he drives a Model S in km, so he would probably know better than me. My figure definitely includes charger efficiency though.

Slightly off topic but nevertheless important to know what numbers the range / usage calculation are based on:
5km/kWh is 200Wh/km, which is what Tesla uses in EU cars to calculate "typical" range, most likely this (slightly optimistic) calculation will also be used for HK cars. Most drivers here use a little more though, about 220-230 would be considered normal.
4km/kWh is 250Wh/km, which is a bit high, only a few % of (spirited) drivers achieve this (including myself at 255 average )

 

[waidy]

They are saying that they will release a three phase charger early next year. To me, that means that the cars will support three phase.

Ditto. MS 3-phase charging is controlled by software and will be disable. When Tesla releases their 3-phase charging station or wall connector, 3-phase charger will be enable via software upgrade.

 

[sonywong]

Saw 6 type-2 charging stations in Tin Hau Car Park.

 

[CCT]

Great sign!

 

[Alipapa]

Saw 6 type-2 charging stations in Tin Hau Car Park.

Do Tesla HK sell the charging cable? how much would it cost?

 

[sonywong]

Tesla HK said each car will come with a free type 2 cable. They told me last time in the test drive.

 

[markwj]

Tesla HK said each car will come with a free type 2 cable. They told me last time in the test drive.

I hope so, but that is not what it says in writing on the website, so at the moment we have to treat that as unconfirmed.

 

[DITB]

I saw this connector on a wall close to where I live.

I probably cannot use it, but does this red connector imply how many amps can be taken?

I'd imagine it's a 3-phase something, but again, how many amps?

 

[miimura]

I saw this connector on a wall close to where I live.

I probably cannot use it, but does this red connector imply how many amps can be taken?

I'd imagine it's a 3-phase something, but again, how many amps?

The IEC Red connectors are 380VAC 3 phase in Hong Kong. There are two sizes that indicate the current capacity, 16A or 32A. If the outside diameter is approximately 7cm, it is 16A, about 8cm is 32A. These correspond to the capacities of the Model S single and dual chargers, 11kW and 22kW.

Edit: There is one more, about 9cm diameter would be the 63A version - 42kW.