Has the way you feel about Tesla changed the way you speak about Tesla to others?

[Andyw2100]

Based on the fine posts from bonnie and TexsEV, we've found a cure for Andyw2100's insomnia.

Andy, if Momma's not happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. Just rip that dang thing out and throw it in the loft space of your garage. Don't store it in the corner! You'll still see it everyday and get aggravated all over again. Then admit that you - not Tesla - were wrong. Tell your wife that (once again) she was right, never should have ordered that stupid center console in the first place.

Voilà! Problem solved.

You'll get bonus points for telling her she was right. Work it, Andy.

Well, one problem would be that my wife would immediately be suspicious that some alien had inhabited my body. So that could be an issue...

What I like about the center console is that it allows the car to have a clean and uncluttered look, with our charging cables hidden away. For now, they are really the only thing that would always be out in the open if the console wasn't there. We're not yet permanently storing anything else in the console. The cup holders aren't an issue because there's no drinking in the car. I do like knowing we have some space to store things if we need to, though.

And of course removing the console also isn't an option now because of the holes it would leave. The holes would certainly bother me as much or more than the piano black does.

 

[Soolim]

Well, unhappy customers are potentially a lot more dangerous for a company than the happy ones.

Had my department gotten 27% negative rating in such a scoring session we would be at red alert asap....

+1. I would say that 27% negative is not something to be ignored, but should be something taken seriously by Tesla.

 

[beeeerock]

A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

Words to live by.

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things. Late software... Anybody die? Mis-matched console... did it cause an Ebola outbreak? Hmmm.... faulty ignition switches... did anybody die? Well, actually they did. And there was a cover-up. And management didn't give a crap. And it wasn't Tesla. Didn't seem to phase the consumer either as they're still buying those inferior products.

I'm sure the day will come when I'm annoyed about my car or something Tesla has done to me. But I intend to keep it in perspective. They're the first upstart car company to survive since... Chrysler? 90 years ago? AND, their car building program is just a means to an end. What end would that be? Huge profits? Well, that would be nice, but the real end they're looking to achieve is actually *avoiding* the end... they're trying to change the world. Not exactly a small or trivial task.

I'll put up with an over-zealous CEO who's clearly an engineer at heart rather than a PR expert - he speaks what he believes, not what has been carefully scripted, something I find refreshing. He tends to over-promise (or perhaps more correctly, 'prematurely promise'), but I can live with that, because I'm lied to by politicians and big corporations about more important things than AutoPilot, on a daily basis.

Changing the world doesn't happen without a few ripples and bumps along the way.

I'll continue to sell the virtues of the company whenever I have the opportunity, as long as Tesla remains true to their cause. The complaints made are more likely a result of the company being pulled in too many directions at once. I don't think anyone at Tesla has ever said, "we aren't going to address that complaint because we simply don't give a rodent's rectum." I think they'd like to solve every problem, but it's hardly realistic. Start with the big ones and work down to the smaller ones as time allows.

When they stop wanting and trying to do better, THEN I'll have a complaint.

 

[bonnie]

A couple of very vocal people can cause problems for a company. So that gets to another question - should a company be held hostage to a few? A forum is a great bully pulpit. It's public. It's like leaving a negative restaurant review on yelp that totally skews the overall perception for people checking reviews in the future.

I'm not judging the fairness here. But I am saying this isn't exactly representative of the customer population. It might be more, it might be less - Tesla probably knows first hand what the numbers are. We do not.

- - - Updated - - -

A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

Words to live by.

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things. Late software... Anybody die? Mis-matched console... did it cause an Ebola outbreak? Hmmm.... faulty ignition switches... did anybody die? Well, actually they did. And there was a cover-up. And management didn't give a crap. And it wasn't Tesla. Didn't seem to phase the consumer either as they're still buying those inferior products.

I'm sure the day will come when I'm annoyed about my car or something Tesla has done to me. But I intend to keep it in perspective. They're the first upstart car company to survive since... Chrysler? 90 years ago? AND, their car building program is just a means to an end. What end would that be? Huge profits? Well, that would be nice, but the real end they're looking to achieve is actually *avoiding* the end... they're trying to change the world. Not exactly a small or trivial task.

I'll put up with an over-zealous CEO who's clearly an engineer at heart rather than a PR expert - he speaks what he believes, not what has been carefully scripted, something I find refreshing. He tends to over-promise (or perhaps more correctly, 'prematurely promise'), but I can live with that, because I'm lied to by politicians and big corporations about more important things than AutoPilot, on a daily basis.

Changing the world doesn't happen without a few ripples and bumps along the way.

I'll continue to sell the virtues of the company whenever I have the opportunity, as long as Tesla remains true to their cause. The complaints made are more likely a result of the company being pulled in too many directions at once. I don't think anyone at Tesla has ever said, "we aren't going to address that complaint because we simply don't give a rodent's rectum." I think they'd like to solve every problem, but it's hardly realistic. Start with the big ones and work down to the smaller ones as time allows.

When they stop wanting and trying to do better, THEN I'll have a complaint.

Amen.

(And yes, that was on purpose .)

 

[Imafrog]

I am less happy �� i love the car, after 13 months of ownership, but... I cannot trust the company strategy. Timing means nothing. I am in the Montreal area and we have waited almost a year for a Supercharger. We still do not know if we will be able to reach the Albany SC this winter. But I sort of knew that on purchase so I live with it.

But as more and more cars are sold, it takes a lot of time to schedule a visit to the Service Center. It will get worse over time when more cars are on the road and Tesla does not allow others to do basic maintenance on the cars. That also I can live with. I already have my november appointment for my winter tires.

but.... The navigation system is a pity. A 100 $ TomTom or Garmin is much more flexible and accurate. There is no way to adjust driving preferences. It still insists on taking me ta a SuperCharger when I know none is needed for my trip. And let me mention the Media system. A very basic MP3 player has more features. Has Tesla ever heard of Playlists? These things could be soved by simple software changes ( evTripPlanner is well made by a student !!! )

did I mention the web browser. No because there is none, at least none that can be called a Browser.

Plus other little things like no decent lighting in the trunks, seat belts that cannot be vertically adjusted ( my wife has her belt across the throat).

I love my car and I live with all these little issues. But I wish these were resolved before we get still another model that will be faster ( so useful in traffic) .

 

[neroden]

Is this different than it was before?

Yes. I specifically bought the car only because the prepaid "Unlimited Ranger 4+4" service was available. At the time "$100 flat fee" Ranger service was also an option. Earlier, "$1/mile" Ranger service was promised. Tesla was aggressively marketing the Ranger service.

Tesla would have zero sales in upstate NY if they hadn't offered all of this! In fact, there are dozens of Teslas in upstate NY, but recent buyers don't know what sort of hell they may have bought into. And they're going to turn on the company when they find out, especially if the drivetrain replacements contineu to be a problem...

I've always cautioned people AWAY from buying this car if they are more than 50 miles from a service center. I don't know any other car company that offers free transportation for warranty service if the car is 200 miles from a dealership. I'm not familiar with Tesla's policy here, which is why I'm asking.

The difference is that for most car companies, you can never get 200 miles from a dealership without going very deep into the middle of nowhere. For Tesla, over 200 miles from a Service Center still includes places like Pittsburgh.

If they're not going to offer service at less than astronomical prices (and "staying overnight in a hotel in order to drop the car off" is an astronomical price, too), they need to stop selling cars into these markets. Which would be a pretty poor decision.

I think Elon may have grossly underestimated the capital necessary to deploy a proper network of Service Centers, but still, that's not an excuse.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not a situation where, at least in my mind, a lot of the option 3 people are selecting option 3 because of, say, an engineering problem, like, for example, the one that exists (or existed) with the early contactors and / or the 12V batteries. I can see problems like that being very hard to solve, and costly to get to the bottom of, and I think, for the most part, we all can, and we're willing to cut Tesla slack on those kinds of things, for all the reasons the supporters give for supporting Tesla. But the communications problems cost next to nothing to fix.

Well, some of them are expensive to fix, but even the cheap ones are not being solved. Software engineering remains a black hole out of which infomration does not come, not even to the service centers. And problems which seemed to have been fixed have been broken again, as we have seen with inconsistent messaging repeatedly.

I'm not going to say that this communications stuff is *easy* to solve, because it requires the right sort of competent manager. I am going to say that Tesla obviously doesn't have enough of that sort of manager.

I agree that (as someone picking option 3), I still feel just as positive about the CAR -- the engineering remains great -- but I'm feeling less and less positive about the COMPANY.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'm not judging the fairness here. But I am saying this isn't exactly representative of the customer population. It might be more, it might be less - Tesla probably knows first hand what the numbers are. We do not.

It may not be representative of the entire customer population, but it is at least somewhat representative of the population of users on TMC. I would think this is a group that Tesla would be concerned about.

As for Tesla probably knowing first-hand what the numbers are, since you are much closer to Tesla management than I am, Bonnie, I'll defer to you. But I will say that I have my doubts, since I don't believe Tesla does a lot with respect to customer satisfaction surveying.

A friend of mine used to tell me, "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things..."

When you look at the complaints that are apparently adequate to equate to 'dissatisfaction', ponder how many of them are really quite petty in the grand scheme of things.

The point that I think your post misses, and that Tesla may be missing, is that for purposes of this discussion it doesn't really matter how good a job Tesla is doing in the big picture. We're not talking about Tesla getting some grand overall rating from some evaluation committee. I don't think most people would argue the fact that Tesla is doing great, and would certainly win any such competition.

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.

The truly great companies never want to lose a good customer. If Tesla wants to remain a truly great company, I think it would serve them well to figure out why close to 30% of their customers who have participated in this survey are at least somewhat dissatisfied with something about what the company has been doing, and then try to figure out if those things are things that can easily be changed or not.

 

[bonnie]

It may not be representative of the entire customer population, but it is at least somewhat representative of the population of users on TMC. I would think this is a group that Tesla would be concerned about.

As for Tesla probably knowing first-hand what the numbers are, since you are much closer to Tesla management than I am, Bonnie, I'll defer to you. But I will say that I have my doubts, since I don't believe Tesla does a lot with respect to customer satisfaction surveying.




The point that I think your post misses, and that Tesla may be missing, is that for purposes of this discussion it doesn't really matter how good a job Tesla is doing in the big picture. We're not talking about Tesla getting some grand overall rating from some evaluation committee. I don't think most people would argue the fact that Tesla is doing great, and would certainly win any such competition.

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.

The truly great companies never want to lose a good customer. If Tesla wants to remain a truly great company, I think it would serve them well to figure out why close to 30% of their customers who have participated in this survey are at least somewhat dissatisfied with something about what the company has been doing, and then try to figure out if those things are things that can easily be changed or not.

but what if they cannot make that customer happy, Andy?

Youre upset over a center console (that you chose to install) and have repeatedly in many areas of this forum accused them of lying to you. I don't believe anything that happened was deliberate. I know we disagree. But at some point you have some customers that you recognize you will not make happy (because they're not going to magically conjure that up for you.)

as far as autopilot- the FIRST post mentions lawsuits. What IS going to make everyone happy is to receive the rest of the package. At one point people said they just wanted status - but iirc, Elon did give an update and people were satisfied with that for about 5 minutes. So I imagine they're just going to keep working at getting it released.

 

[Andyw2100]

but what if they cannot make that customer happy, Andy?

Youre upset over a center console (that you chose to install) and have repeatedly in many areas of this forum accused them of lying to you. I don't believe anything that happened was deliberate. I know we disagree. But at some point you have some customers that you recognize you will not make happy (because they're not going to magically conjure that up for you.)

as far as autopilot- the FIRST post mentions lawsuits. What IS going to make everyone happy is to receive the rest of the package. At one point people said they just wanted status - but iirc, Elon did give an update and people were satisfied with that for about 5 minutes. So I imagine they're just going to keep working at getting it released.

I acknowledged that there may be customers that Tesla would not be able to make happy. If nothing else, figuring out what they did to turn these unhappy customers into unhappy customers could prevent Tesla from making the same mistakes in the future.

In my case I do feel like I can't trust Tesla the way I once could. And while they can't magically conjure up a console for me, they could announce that they have plans in place to contract for replacement pieces to fit the current consoles that will match the current interiors.

As for the autopilot, I think they just need to learn from their mistakes.

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.

 

[bonnie]

I acknowledged that there may be customers that Tesla would not be able to make happy. If nothing else, figuring out what they did to turn these unhappy customers into unhappy customers could prevent Tesla from making the same mistakes in the future.

In my case I do feel like I can't trust Tesla the way I once could. And while they can't magically conjure up a console for me, they could announce that they have plans in place to contract for replacement pieces to fit the current consoles that will match the current interiors.

As for the autopilot, I think they just need to learn from their mistakes.

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.

So, if I read this correctly, what you're saying is 'future actions could potentially change your opinion, not words'. Consider that maybe they DID learn from announcing the center console, saw the bad quality, and are reticent to make another announcement about replacements UNTIL they have stuff actually in hand that meets spec. Otherwise people will be twice as angry.

I am absolutely positive that there have been lessons learned over past mistakes, just as I am absolutely positive there are still lessons yet to be learned. Only you will be able to decide if their actions are good enough for you. I have a feeling all the talking in the world wouldn't make a bit of difference to you, your mind is pretty much set that it went down a certain way. So here we are. All they can do is continue on the path they're on & perhaps you'll be satisfied at some point. I hope that happens for you.

- - - Updated - - -

*to be clear, I have zero knowledge about any center console plans. But if people don't want them to repeat mistakes and they're not repeating it by making promises/giving dates until they have the stuff in hand, but people WANT a promise about what they're going to do ... this is a no win situation. That's my only point.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

My point that most of us could be brought back into the fold was based on the fact that I think for most of us it was an accumulation of little things that caused the shift in how we felt. Over time, with an accumulation of little positive things, our feelings may shift back. But if Tesla keeps doing the little things that have caused the nearly 30% of us to respond as we did, that number is going to keep growing. I can't imagine anyone wants that.

Some customers don't want Tesla to update the car more than once per year. One owner launched a thread at TM basically tearing into Tesla because his P85D wasn't the "top dog" for more than a few months before the P90D was launched. Undoubtedly, some of the 27% who are dissatisfied in this informal, statistically inaccurate poll are unhappy because Tesla has made TOO MUCH progress. There could be many reasons why people might have selected option 3, and some reasons are quite obviously silly.

I can't wait for this poll to be quoted in some Tesla hit piece about how "30% of Tesla customers are dissatisfied". The drive unit poll already made similar headlines.

 

[Andyw2100]

So, if I read this correctly, what you're saying is 'future actions could potentially change your opinion, not words'. Consider that maybe they DID learn from announcing the center console, saw the bad quality, and are reticent to make another announcement about replacements UNTIL they have stuff actually in hand that meets spec. Otherwise people will be twice as angry.

I am absolutely positive that there have been lessons learned over past mistakes, just as I am absolutely positive there are still lessons yet to be learned. Only you will be able to decide if their actions are good enough for you. I have a feeling all the talking in the world wouldn't make a bit of difference to you, your mind is pretty much set that it went down a certain way. So here we are. All they can do is continue on the path they're on & perhaps you'll be satisfied at some point. I hope that happens for you.

- - - Updated - - -

*to be clear, I have zero knowledge about any center console plans. But if people don't want them to repeat mistakes and they're not repeating it by making promises/giving dates until they have the stuff in hand, but people WANT a promise about what they're going to do ... this is a no win situation. That's my only point.

I'm not yet at the point where I'm not willing to believe anything Tesla says, (so that it's "actions only" for me, as you put it.) Words could change my opinion, provided that the words eventually came to pass.

I think there's a big difference between announcing autopilot functions that to many sound like they are a major component of the car and are coming with the car, which is what has a lot of people upset about the fact that they're not released yet, and saying something like "we can't produce the console we promised, but we're going back to the drawing board, and will try again, and will keep trying until we get it right." Yes, people were complaining about how long the console was taking in the first place. I was one of them. But those complaints were nothing compared to how disappointed we became when we were told the center console was simply scrapped. Words to give us hope for the future would go a long way towards making things better, and as long as they were not just words, then yes, the words would probably be enough to bring many of us around.

Similarly, to whatever extent it's possible, I think the right words on the autopilot issue could really help. For example, when the P85D was released and none of us had any idea why we weren't seeing the expected efficiency numbers, eventually there was the JB Straubel blog post explaining things, and things got a heck of a lot better from that point forward. I think a similar post on what the hold up has been with autopilot, with a reasonable estimate, along with appropriate disclaimers, of when it may be released, would help. No, not everyone would be appeased by something like that. But I think a lot of people would be.

Again, it comes down largely to communications, which I know you agree has been an issue for Tesla.

 

[Soolim]

My dissatisfaction are few, but they are annoying, namely:
1. Having to reset the computer everyday just to get 3G connection for the touch screen map and internet radio to work properly. Communication set to always connected!
2. No individual tire pressure reading, only warning when you are about to have a flat tire.
3. No auto-parking yet after 9 months of software development
4. Drive train whining sound gets louder as time progress. Tesla says it is acceptable, but I did not notice the noise when the car was new.

Other than above, I love my MS. So if I were to be giving comments on Tesla to my friends and neighbour, then I would say this:
Tesla is out to change the means of land transportation and that is a very noble goal. MS saves me $2k a year in fuel cost. MS has a lot of features and can accelerate to 60mph in 2.8 seconds, but my MS has some deficiencies as described above. Can you live with that on a $100k car? Would you wait a little bit more while Tesla will hopefully resolve these issues that I know of?

 

[Krugerrand]

I am less happy �� i love the car, after 13 months of ownership, but... I cannot trust the company strategy. Timing means nothing. I am in the Montreal area and we have waited almost a year for a Supercharger. We still do not know if we will be able to reach the Albany SC this winter. But I sort of knew that on purchase so I live with it.

How do you know that's Tesla's fault. Perhaps there's a hold up on a city/county level.

But as more and more cars are sold, it takes a lot of time to schedule a visit to the Service Center. It will get worse over time when more cars are on the road and Tesla does not allow others to do basic maintenance on the cars. That also I can live with. I already have my november appointment for my winter tires.

Certainly Tesla will have to open up more SC's/expand, and it's quite possible they will allow others to do basic maintenance on cars via partnerships, or when shops start to get on board with EV training and/or more EVs are on the road requiring shops to train their employees not just for ICEs, but also for EVs.

 

[rays427]

I voted about the same. I did not expect the car to be without some problems. I purchased a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle in 2002 expecting it to be fairly trouble free. I mean what could go wrong? It has been the most troublesome vehicle I have ever owned. Several electrical gremlins and the cost of batteries has made it expensive to maintain. Overall it has been more expensive to drive per mile than my ICE cars. Also just think of what typically goes wrong with an ICE vehicle. Very seldom is it the drive train. The main problems tend to be with the electronics. So as a completely electronic vehicle I didn't expect it to be without problems. Since I do my own general maintenance and repairs on my ICE vehicles I think Tesla maintenance will be more. I assume I will need to spend at least $600 every two years for general maintenance which is more than any ICE I have owned. I also understood from the forum/etc that Tesla is overly optimistic. I mean the Model X is about 2 years behind schedule. Autopilot is slow in coming, superchargers are generally behind schedule, etc, etc. However I purchased the car knowing all this so my feelings about the car have not changed. I have not had any problems with my car but again I don't expect it to be trouble free. Driving on a day to day basis is great. Trips are not as easy as with an ICE but I look forward to them as a challenge. This will get easier as more superchargers are opened but that may get offset by more cars trying to use them. One final thing is the poll #3 says your less happy which does not mean your unhappy with the car. From the replies it appears that most of the folks that voted number 3 are still overall happy with their car.

 

[Andyw2100]

One final thing is the poll #3 says your less happy which does not mean your unhappy with the car. From the replies it appears that most of the folks that voted number 3 are still overall happy with their car.

Exactly!

I purposely worded things this way.

I've said it in this thread and elsewhere--I am generally happy with my car. I'm just not as happy as I had been. When I speak to others about the car I imagine they still walk away thinking very positive thoughts about Tesla. But I know that I'm not speaking quite as enthusiastically or with quite as much affection as I did in the past.

 

[Ugliest1]

The issue is that some number of customers are less satisfied than they once were, and are speaking less enthusiastically about Tesla and Tesla vehicles to others than they once did, almost certainly resulting in some lost sales. If I were in Tesla management, I'd want to know the reasons these customers' feelings have changed. Perhaps for some there really isn't anything Tesla can do, or anything it makes sense for Tesla to do. But my sense is that's probably not the case for the majority of the people selecting answer option 3. My gut feeling tells me that most of us who are a little cooler on Tesla than we had been could easily be made to feel as we once did, with relatively little expenditure of time and effort on Tesla's part.

Just kind of thinking out loud here in general, and please nobody take this personally. In my life I've interacted with plenty of people who seem to be less satisfied over same or similar purchases or achievements or staff output than me. This is likely more a failing of mine, being satisfied with accepting less than perhaps I should. On the other hand one of my favourite quotes is Art Linkletter's "Things generally turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out".

So I wonder, for this situation, how much of the 27% less satisfied is just the normal course of business where some percentage of customers are happy initially but just naturally tend to be less happy as time goes on? I KNOW I have met people that are repeatedly like this. *I'm not accusing anyone here*, just looking at an overall pattern I've noticed in the non-Tesla world.

Ok, I'd better duck behind that bullet-proof screen I just got and hope it actually works

 

[Lump]

Even if TM can wave a magic wand & erase all past dissatisfactions they somehow manage to create another batch of owners that are likely to choose option 3 in the near future.

Have any P85D owners confirmed service date for Ludicrous mode retrofit? - Page 2

 

[NigelM]

My dissatisfaction are few, but they are annoying, namely:
1. Having to reset the computer everyday just to get 3G connection for the touch screen map and internet radio to work properly. Communication set to always connected!

If rebooting is really a daily occurrence you should talk to Tesla service; I've rebooted our Model S maybe 3 times in the three years we've owned it and IIRC they were all after FW updates.

 

[ohmman]

I'm a number 2 guy. I have been smitten since delivery, but as I've dug into the company and understood what it has taken to get this far, I have more and more respect for them, and in that way, I'm happier than I was. Even during a service issue, getting a bit of context on the accomplishment always helps my patience.